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Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Black and White
« on: January 09, 2007, 12:55:58 AM »
What is so great about black and white photos?

I'm not sure I've ever seen a black and white photo of a golf course without wishing it were in color. I find the Friar's Head profile quite frustrating for this reason.

Sometimes I think that appreciating black and whites must come with maturity, as with things like cello concerts and expensive brandy.

Other times I just don't get why anyone would take a black and white photograph of a golf course.

Aidan, do you take black and whites? Do you ever get requests specifically for them?

I'd love to hear others' opinions.

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Black and White
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2007, 04:46:35 AM »
I like the black and white photo's, leaves something to the imagination.

Every once in a while I run into an old Black and White next to a color of the same shot, makes for a neat comparison.
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

wsmorrison

Re:Black and White
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2007, 06:41:31 AM »
Black and White photography has the potential to show ground contours better than color photographs.  The contours reveal themselves better in shades of grey rather than color for some reason.

Book publishers like black and white because of the expense of publishing color photographs.

Josh Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Black and White
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2007, 09:03:19 AM »
I personally love black and white.  :P  I prefer it in many instances.  It seems that usually the courses that have great character and are rough around the edges show best in this format.  (Those things lead to more contrast in the photos)

For Example...Augusta in its modern state in black and white would not interest me, but in it early MacKenzie state does.
One Augusta National book has some great black and whites from early days.  I think the Friars Head profile is maybe the coolest one on the site. 8)  

Matt, Do you own Geoff Shackelford's Cypress Point book?  If not this may help to refine your taste for photography. :-\

Doug Ralston

Re:Black and White
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2007, 09:29:27 AM »
Is this covertly political? Conservatives see things in black and white [fer us or again us]; while liberals see a range of color in things [more than two possible implications/answers]?

Doug

Doug Ralston

Re:Black and White
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2007, 09:43:06 AM »
Sorry, I am in 'one of those moods' today.

Actually, I have a wonderous B&W photo from the 1950's of a child's eye peeking through a window in surprise. The eye stands out because it is B&W, I think it would be less dramatic in color.

B&W has it's place. That said, I agree I like my golf photos in color for the most part.

Doug

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Black and White
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2007, 09:49:02 AM »
Matt,
you are correct. Certain things in life, like proper Art appreciation, only come with age (although, top-quality sensimilla can also have similar effects) ;)

For AMAZING monochrome images of landscapes, one can do no better, than (you may have heard of him), Ansel Adams.

http://www.anseladams.com/

Hopefully, HE will convince you of the possibility of B+W photography as High Art...

FBD.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

john_stiles

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Black and White
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2007, 10:01:50 AM »
I like the B&W photos and was trying to recall if there has been any promotional use of B&Ws.   You know, when you need to 'sell' something related to golf.

Does anyone recall seeing any 'promotional' material for any golf course in B&W ?   I can't recall a single one.

I would like to see some of Aidan's work in B&W.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2007, 10:02:08 AM by john_stiles »

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Black and White
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2007, 10:17:44 AM »
I find the Friar's Head profile quite frustrating for this reason.

I love the Friar's Head pictures.

But, then, I love black-and-white photos generally. My wife's and my wedding pictures are in black-and-white -- and, unlike the four-color pictures taken that day, they'll last essentially forever. How's that for symbolism?!

I'm curious, Matt: What do you want to know about Friar's Head that you can't learn from the BW pictures? The colors of FH *that day*?

That doesn't seem, to me, to be important information.

"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Black and White
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2007, 12:37:57 PM »
Dan,
The colors of Friar's Head *any* day!!! Isn't part of the look there related to color contrast? Green turf, stone-colored sand, deep blue water, the red (?) farmhouse? Maybe the point is to focus me on undulation rather than color, but still...I want my eye candy, too. I promise I'll still look at the contours.

Josh,
I don't own the book but I've spent time with it. I think anything from before 1950 gets a free pass. I still have trouble conceptualizing that the world wasn't black and white in the 20's and 30's - only the pictures of it are!

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Black and White
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2007, 12:43:41 PM »
Matt,

to reiterate an old greenkeeping saying 'golf is not a colour'.

Although, I understand what your saying about the contrast you can still see the essence of the course with B&W, maybe even better than with colour because it focuses on the attributes more.

I am glad I am not the only one with the 20's, 30's black and white thing.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2007, 12:44:49 PM by Jon Wiggett »

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Black and White
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2007, 01:32:31 PM »
Frankly, I have seen both color and black and white, and Friars Head looks better in black and white.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Aidan Bradley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Black and White
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2007, 02:32:27 PM »
Matt,

I have never been asked to shoot a course in B&W. However several course have requested I convert the color image to B&W to display the images in their clubhouse etc. Some people regard B&W as more of an art piece. Below are two images for you to decide which you prefer.

Aidan.




Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Black and White
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2007, 02:35:13 PM »
Black and white RULES!
 :)
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Black and White
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2007, 02:50:59 PM »
Matt,

I have never been asked to shoot a course in B&W. However several course have requested I convert the color image to B&W to display the images in their clubhouse etc. Some people regard B&W as more of an art piece. Below are two images for you to decide which you prefer.

Aidan.





I like both of those. But it's (if you'll pardon the pun) a pretty atmospheric picture, from the get-go -- an art piece, that is, with that haze or fog or smog or whatever it is.

If you're interested, I'd appreciate your posting a couple other pairs of more straightforward golf-course pictures. The comparisons would be interesting.
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Black and White
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2007, 03:30:35 PM »
I doubt that there is a definitive answer.  But, Aidan's comparison test is great.  To me, I prefer the B&W if it was in a book on GCA or related subject where the exercise is to stimulate one's thought and imagination through words and thoughts as a first source of inspiration, and the B&W photo as reinforcement and further stimulus of the mental process of aesthetic appreciation.

Yet, the color photo would serve more in the situation of a stand alone setting such as a calendar.  It  brings forth the more immediate or instant effect of jogging the mind to that place and time, rather than a evoking through the longer more reflective process of reading and imagining.  

Buonarotti didn't paint the Cistine Chapel in black and white, yet the white Carrera marble set in proper lighting of the Pieta serves as a similar effect to B&W photo.  One gazes up at the glory of the heavenly spectacle in the chapel and is filled with the glory of colors and invitation to embrace that glory, but one bows and prays or reflects at the deep emotion of the pity for the Mother and piousness of the setting in a more contemplative manner in the black and white of the marble.
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Black and White
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2007, 03:56:36 PM »
Black and White photography has the potential to show ground contours better than color photographs.  

The same with the female form ...


"... and I liked the guy ..."

Jim Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Black and White
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2007, 04:26:42 PM »
IMHO, the greatest thing about B&W of golf in particular is that it eliminates the temptation to pass any value on the subject based on level of greenness or lushness.  Rather, it forces the viewer to consider the form first, thus getting the priorities of the game back into their proper order.

Cheers!

JT
Jim Thompson

Kyle Harris

Re:Black and White
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2007, 04:28:42 PM »
Aidan,

Pardon my amateur ignorance, but is there a quality difference between a converted black and white picture from color and a picture taken as black and white?

Aidan Bradley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Black and White
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2007, 06:51:40 PM »
Dan,

Below is another comparison as requested.

Kyle,

I knew someone was going to ask that question(Good one). Haveing consulted with another photographer and my local photolab, the general concensus is that the differance , if any is very subtle.




rjsimper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Black and White
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2007, 07:05:38 PM »
I think it goes without saying, especially in this latest pair, that any golf photo where the ocean plays prominently is going to be better in color.  That being said, I am happy to alter my opinion if shown an image where the B/W version is clearly superior.
 

Jonathan Cummings

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Black and White
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2007, 07:14:50 PM »
I have always thought that Turnberry is the best of Scotland.  How in the hell can anybody argue that the gorgeous portrait that the talented Aidan posted of Ailsa's number 9 isn't some of the best of golf.  Actually, the fifth-tenth is as special a series (to me) as it gets in Bristish Isles golf.

Forget black and white (I loved my portraiture photography course in college which was all black and white), the colors Aidan captured are rich, vibrant and bring me memories that send chills up and down my spine!

JC

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Black and White
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2007, 07:33:54 PM »
Aidan --

Thanks!

I still like 'em both.

I'd like to see the B&W movie, but play the 4C course.


"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Aidan Bradley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Black and White
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2007, 07:46:27 PM »
Ryan,

A couple more for you. I don't think we should compare the merits of one over the other, but moreover enjoy the differences. Color is easy, it leaves very little to the imagination. We all know thet the sky and the ocean are blue and grass for the most part is green. But to be able to convey that and appreciate the subtle nuances and tonality of a B&W image is very special. They both have there place and eventhough the preponderence of golf course imagery we see on a daily basis is color, a good B&W with a wide range of tonality and density can be enjoyed just as much. My opinion for what it is worth.

Aidan.




rjsimper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Black and White
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2007, 08:01:44 PM »
You are right - In fact, I have a great shot that my playing partner took of me walking along the beach at Wentworth by the Sean in New Hampshire.  It was a gray day and while the picture is nice in color, and features a beach/ocean, it's a much better shot in B/W.

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