This is done in part to take up the challenge of Matt Ward, an example of which is quoted below.

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Jay -- I enjoy your comments generally -- but you have come down with a bad case of Sand Hills-itis (the disease that afflicts golfers who give more points to isolated courses than they actually deserve.
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P.S. Plus -- If you are looking for out-of-the-way golf adventures then try western Colorado or Utah -- with such layouts as Lakota Canyon, Devil's Thumb and The Hideout respectively, to name just three.

Matt has expressed several times that his opinion of The Links of ND is quite low and that he thinks it to be over rated. We will see how a direct comparison comes out below.

To do the comparison, I created four categories, par 3, straight par 4, bending par 4, and par 5. Then I sorted the holes from shortest to longest. The comparison is two long for one post so will follow in the next few posts.

STRAIGHT PAR 4s

Comparison 5

13 369/334/290



15 290/280/239





This is an interesting comparison. Both green complexes make for a
difficult up and down. The difference is that at the Hideout, it will
typically be up and down for a 3 whereas at the Links it will be up and
down for a 4. The lay up at the Hideout is less interesting than the
lay up at the Links. Therefore, we are really comparing a go for it
vs. a lay up as the uphill at the Links puts going for it out of reach
for almost all golfers. After only one round at the Hideout, I questioned
the strength of #15, but I will give it the benefit of the doubt and
call this a halve.

All square

Comparison 6

1 407/386/367                                    



12 360/326/298





In my opinion, #12 at the Hideout is an interesting hole
visually. However, it seems to throttle you back too much, whereas,
the first at the Links has simple but strategic bunkering, especially
for front right pins.

The Links 1 up

Comparison 7

14 465/422/406                                  



1 371/352/312





Not a particularly interesting short hole at the Hideout, vs a long
par 4 at The Links with strategic bunkering.

The Links 2 up

Comparison 8

6 465/436/414                                    



16 405/374/341





A truly shining hole at the Hideout that I created a thread about.

The Links 1 up

PAR 5s

Comparison 15

4 505/485/460



14 515/490/448





The Links hole plays uphill starting in a ravine of sorts to a fairway
canting left. Offers birdie chance if not waylayed by hazzards. The
hole at Hideout is a fairly standard dogleg left par 5.

The Links 5 up.

Comparison 16

7 560/518/487



13 540/523/462





One of the better par 5s at each course. Both offer different and
interesting options a shots throughout the hole. Halve.

The Links 5 up.

Comparison 17

10 570/551/527



2 558/501/475







Hideout's weakest par 5 loses this one.

The Links 6 up.

Comparison 18

18 572/542/512



9 581/555/504







I like The Links #18 much better than Matt Ward did. However, I like
the 9th at Hideout better and think it is the best par 5 there.

The Links wins 5 up.

Forrest,

In many ways the people of Monticello have it better with the course and practice area being right in town. Not only is the course well outside of Williston, ND, making it a trip just to go play, but dropping by for some work on your game is pretty much out of the question.

I would like to get to both courses.  Forrest, those severely canted fairways at the Hideout look positively "Olympian!"   Driving is obviously a premium as it looks like errant tee shots could wind up in really bad places..

Tim,

If Jay does not come back and point you to his reviews, then you might IM him to ask. I did not get to Hawktree yet, but on future trips to visit family, I will for sure.

How are the vistas in N.D?

The drop shot hole in Monticello is better than Garland describes. So is the 12th "Dodge".

Havent been to the northland yet, but I sense it could easily be in my future.

One critique on the method of comparison. It is important in what sequence the holes play. In this format, that aspect is not considered, which I believe is a mistake and leads to a hole by individual hole analysis of GCA, which I rally against.
Is this a vaccum Danny?

Garland,

That was a great thread. We could all mince the details of your analysis but I have to say, that was one of the best defense / arguements I have ever seen posted. Nice work.

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One critique on the method of comparison. It is important in what sequence the holes play. In this format, that aspect is not considered, which I believe is a mistake and leads to a hole by individual hole analysis of GCA, which I rally against.
Is this a vaccum Danny?

I preferred the sequence/routing of The Links of ND over Hideout, also. Of course I considered doing them in hole order, but I don't feel that adds as much as comparing apples to apples.

Jay — Don't get there too quickly...The Hideout sits at 7,000 feet and I am certain snow will come any day now.

Apples-to-apples...? Really now.

Speaking as an author of an entire book on the subject of Routing, I hardly feel it appropriate that you ingnore routing and sequence in the comparison of courses. To do so is a thwart on one of the greatest hallmarks and design aspects of golf — routing.

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Apples-to-apples...? Really now.

Speaking as an author of an entire book on the subject of Routing, I hardly feel it appropriate that you ingnore routing and sequence in the comparison of courses. To do so is a thwart on one of the greatest hallmarks and design aspects of golf — routing.

Don't forget Forrest, there are crab apples, domesticated apples, delicious apples, all more related than oranges are to apples.

Your book on routing arrived the other day from Amazon. Therefore, I plead ignorance for the time being, but I am making an effort to rectify that.