[Sean_A]

The current thread about Cruden Bay got me to thinking.  I think it is well established that Old Tom Morris is more responsible for Cruden Bay than has been let on by the Simpson fans on this board.  It is also thought that the partnership of Fowler (I think Simpson joined Fowler as more or less a novice archie around '09)) & Simpson was more or less divided with Simpson in Europe and Fowler in the UK - especially after WWI.  The partnership dissolved sometime in the late '20s.  Why then is Simpson given main credit for Cruden Bay when the work was done in '26 (I think)?  This is fully two years before the Berkshire was done and these courses are credited to Fowler.  

Is there some proof that Simpson was the main man at Cruden Bay and are there other examples of Simpson taking main credit of UK work during this busy period for him in Europe?

Ciao

[Tom_Doak]

Sean:

Simpson wrote a book and drew beautiful drawings of his favorite holes at Cruden Bay -- and he was not averse to picking holes from his own portfolio among his favorites.  Thus, it has been assumed that he was mainly responsible for those holes, at least.  I have no idea if that's actually true or not; it really never worried me too much who gets credit for what, as long as I get to learn from the best of their work.

[T_MacWood]

I think it is well established that Old Tom Morris is more responsible for Cruden Bay than has been let on by the Simpson fans on this board.

It is? There is more evidence pointing to Archie Simpson (and the pro that followed...Weir) than Old Tom. I seriously doubt Old Tom had anything to do with CB other than give Archie his blessing.

I believe there were two Fowler-Simpson involvements at CB. The first was around 1909 or 1910 by Fowler assisted by Simpson (likely their first job together). The second around 1920 by Simpson assisted by Fowler. I have no idea where the '26 date came from.

Simpson was also involved at Berkshire.

[T_MacWood]

I'm not sure about Beau Desert. I don't recall if I dug up anything on its history or not. Simpson wrote about working at Berkshire, he did not specify what he he did although the bunkering looks very much like his work. Whatever the case it is first and foremost a Fowler design.

My take on the partnership. Most of the courses on the Continent are Simpson's; most of the courses in Britain are Fowler. With a limited few there is some evidence of collaboration.

I do not call CB a Tom Simpson; based upon magazine and newspaper reports at the time the bones of the course are Archie Simpson. If you must attribute an architect or architects - I'd call it a A.Simpson/Weir/Fowler/T.Simpson course. It is defintely the product of a group effort.

[Tom_Doak]

Sean:

Re: Alison at Burnham, I don't find that situation hard to understand.  I've been a member of Crystal Downs for many years but never officially a consultant there, they've brought in outsiders.  Likewise, RTJ Jr. is a member of SFGC and Ben Crenshaw a member of Chicago Golf, but I am the consultant at those clubs.

The two primary reasons are:  

a)  Outside consultants always seem to carry more weight because they are outside the politics of the club, and

b)  When you are a member of a club sometimes you would just rather play golf and not be bothered with work.

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