[Pat Ruddy]

Who likes the Ha-Ha in golf?
One of the most deceptive design devices of all ....best from a point back from the leading edge on an elevated tee or fairway with the shot to go out over fast-dropping ground where much is conealed from view and distant points seem close.  
When combined with sucker bunkers on dog-legs this is a lethal visual trap.
The Ha-Ha of the original type is to be found in old estates where the front-of-the-house view is preserved by single or terraced ha-has which keep stock and others at bay without the need for fencing or hedges.
Anyone have a favourite ha-ha?

[Jack_Marr]

Ha ha. I think there's a good one in Strandhill in Sligo, if my interpretation is correct. A very good hole and enjoyable course, too.

[Mike_Cirba]

Pat,

Applebrooke west of Philadelphia has a very cool ha-ha on a long par four where a road intersects the approach to the green.

Would the road crossing on #11 at NGLA be considered a haha, as the road is obstructed visually by earthen works just short of the road as you walk towards the green?

[Mark Pearce]

There's one on the 17th (I think) at Matfen Hall, a short par 3 where driver runs the risk of ending up against the base of the Ha-Ha.  One of the better holes on a course I don't much like.  An interesting feature but not one I'd want to see repeated too often.

[Robert_Walker]

All of the HAHAs that I have ever seen had fences at the bottom of the "ditch". I must say that it is a very effective tool for keeping the animals close enough to see but physically away from the yard and house.
St Enodoc uses the the haha efect to hide a road that crosses a fairway.

[Adam Clayman]

There aren't too many American examples of this concept. I never heard the term Ha-Ha. Thanx Pat.

I wonder if it's in Forrest's dictionary?

However, Mostly in Florida, but not exclusively, certain archies have used the Ha-Ha concept utilizing blind water hazards. They only become funny after repeated exposure. That's funny in a bad way.

[Jason Topp]

I'm not sure I follow the concept, but the first hole at Hyperion Field Club in Des Moines, IA probably fits this description.  

http://www.hyperionfc.com/golf.php?page=6&hole=1

It is about 390 yards and probably is 100 feet downhill. Out of bounds right awaits a blocked first shot of the day.  A tee shot that is short of the fairway bunkers gives a wide landing zone and a very straightforward approach from 130 yards.  

It feels possible to drive the green from the tee (and may be for a long hitter), but if you are not precisely straight, you have a difficult wedge to a green that slopes away, and trees near the green tighten the hole considerably.  

In a recent tournament, our group had 4, 6, 6 and 7 on the hole. One of the 6's wound up 2 under on the day.

[Dan_Callahan]

I might be wrong on the concept, but I believe there is a drop-shot par 3 at Okemo that fits the description. From the back of the tee box, all you can see is the back half of the green, which has got to be about 75 feet below. The hill falls away sharply and is covered with thick rough. Bunkers short and to the sides are not visible. It is a relatively long hole that looks very short because of the elevation change.

[Padraig Dooley]

There is a Ha-Ha wall on the 11th hole of the Chesire Course at Carden Park near Chester. The 11th is a long par 5, the wall is approx 120 yards from the green and is a massive factor in the postioning of the tee shot and the difficulty of the approach depending on whether or not it can be cleared with the second shot.

The wall was type designed for an old estate which Pat described.

It's a wonderful design feature, which has had little use.

[TEPaul]

I love Ha-Has both in landscape architecture and functionally on golf courses.

We are just about to do one right now to hide most of the cart path behind the clubhouse at GMGC.

MikeC:

No, the earthen works at NGLA on #11 and #8 are not Ha-Has, they are vertical berms and they aren't original. To create a Ha-Ha on those two holes they would have to drop the public road down about five feet (which shouldn't be that much of a problem for NGLA, I'm sure ).

Ardrossan Farm had a great Ha-Ha, and had I thought of the use of another one on one hole that project and GMGC might be at Ardrossan Farm right now.

Mallow Castle in Mallow Ireland has a Ha-Ha that keeps in a herd of minature white deer that have been there for years.

Someone at The Creek in LI was wondering the other day if there was an old Ha-Ha on the Cravath estate known as Veraton that preceded The Creek that crosses the 18th. I think it may just have been an old road on the estate that ran along a slightly raised ridgeline.

Anbody want to hear the etymology of the landscape architecture term Ha-Ha?

[Ally Mcintosh]

Anbody want to hear the etymology of the landscape architecture term Ha-Ha?

yes please, TEP

[TEPaul]

It's because that architectural feature was so used in a landscape aspect behind such things as the rear of many of those enormous old English park estate houses. As Pat Ruddy implied the idea was to not break up with fencing the bucolic vistas out over land sometimes as far as the eye could see. The LA purpose of the HaHa was that it was invisible from the house and it created a diminishing line on the end of a long lawn, for instance, that looked like the ground was seamless with what was beyond it. There were cattle and such out there in those fields beyond the long lawns that looked from the house like they just merged into one another. Of course, they couldn't have the cattle and such coming up on those long lawns but it was impossible to see what prevented them from doing that. It was the HaHa which was invisible from the house that prevented them from getting on the lawn. Unfortunately since it was invisibile from the house a goodly number of those drunken English lords and aristocrats would go running and cavorting down those long lawns and fall directly into those invisible HaHa's at the lawn's end. This would obviously make all the English lords and ladies and aristocrats up at the mansion house go HAHAHAHA in delight at the stupidity of those drunken lords and ladies and aristocrats lying in the bottom of those HaHas at the end of those massively long lawns.

[John Goodman]

Just so's I'm sure what we're talking about, is this one?

[TEPaul]

Yes it most certainly is a HaHa. The only odd thing about it is the lawn is so short. The landscape architect who designed that particular lawn and HaHa was never going to get the full landscape architecture effect of the diminishing line on the end of the lawn unless he felt all the drunken lords and ladies and aristocrats were so damn soused they were all lying flat on their stomachs looking out on the massive views behind that park estate house. But I guess that's possible too as a lot of those English had some pretty devilish senses of humor. or is it sense of humours?

Can you see Wacko Wayno Morrison over on the far side of that HaHa trying to get up on the lawn to join the party with the rest of the swine?

[James Bennett]

Am I the only one here that is really glad that this thread didn't start on April 1?

Are there any other explanations for the naming of this feature?  If TEPaul is right (is he ever wrong), then I presume that Nelson Muntz (of The Simpsons fame) may have been related to the original inventor of the Ha-Ha.  

James B

[Bill_McBride]

The Ha-Ha of the original type is to be found in old estates where the front-of-the-house view is preserved by single or terraced ha-has which keep stock and others at bay without the need for fencing or hedges.
Anyone have a favourite ha-ha?

There is a great example in the middle of the front lawn of the Royal Crescent in Bath, where you look down over the town from those Georgian townhouses but can't see the "ha ha" drop off.  This would definitely keep the livestock on the lower level, it must be four feet high.

Let's see if this photo works - the "ha ha" is the line across the lawn.  You don't see any livestock on the side closest to the townhouses, right?

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