Pat's last post brought forth an important point, the evolution of a course. The course has changed since I was there in 1999. It is very clear this significant course south of Dublin should be looked at again.

Pat's last post brought forth an important point, the evolution of a course. The course has changed since I was there in 1999. It is very clear this significant course south of Dublin should be looked at again.

Tiger,

Just curious, from what you remember of the things that you did not like, has Pat made those changes?

This is an interesting thread. Perhaps it would have been valuable to Pat back in 1999, thus I hope the process of GCA.com remains the same, with maybe better timing.

I absolutely loved Kelly Moran's Lederach GC on my one an only play, which happened to be with him. I told Kelly then, and I will say it again, I think he should blow up the one hole (#12?). Kelly was crystal clear that is was going to take more than one wannabe rater to change the hole!! Actually, I thought his process had logic: give it a few years and then lets talk. I will bet that hole will be changed in 2013. I would also guess that some greens would be softened too due to public play opinion, but I would hope they and each of the other 17 holes stay the same.

Hopefully Kelly will reappear on GCA before 2013.

I need to talk about 18.  It is probably the most controversial hole on the course.  I have played the course almost a dozen times and have only played it well a few times.  It began with a small pond fronting the green.  Pat took a lot of grief about the hole and has replaced it with a little burn.  It did not soften the hole but did give it some more character.  
The hole is long and if the drive is not well hit the second shot is blind and ;ong and a lay-up is necessary.  Hitting the green, even from 150 yards is not a bargain either as the green cants and is not all that big.  It is a stern finish, but it follows a wonderful par four where three is a distinct possibility.  It seems to me that the 17th green has been enlarged.  I think my favorite hole is three.  But then again I did hole out my second shot.

The European Club has been debated a bit on GCA in recent weeks and this posting is an effort to ensure that the followers of various threads who happen on this thread will benefit from up-to-date information.

How many inhabitants of GCA have visited us?  When were they last here?
Anyone thinking of coming should note that access is not a problem either in terms of getting here or in terms of being made welcome.  If one is at home a cup of tea and a scone is on the cards.

Access-
 How many know that there is now a motorway almost the full length of Ireland’s east coast, by-passing Dublin, from Belfast to Rosslare and that we are now just 1.5 hours from Portmarnock and 3-hours from Royal County Down at all but rush hour time. So, it has never been easier to play  RCD, Baltray, The Island, Portmarnock (old),  Royal Dublin, Portmarnock Links (new), Druids Glen, The K-Club and The European Club.

Rankings -
We do not believe that any ranking is sacrosanct or fully correct. But we take heart when ALL rankings give us favourable mention and we see this as an indication that we are getting some things right.
Most recent rankings bestowed on us are:  91st in the World (Golf magazine 2005, up form 98th in 2003); 2nd in Ireland (Golf Digest Ireland 2006); 15th in Britain & Ireland (Golf Monthly UK 2006).
 Despite this, some people will enjoy our links and others will dislike it.  That’s just the way it is with design.  But we are sure that nobody will be indifferent!

Evolution of a links -
Here is some of how we have been working through the years to make our links excellent in design and presentation:-
I like to think of a golf links somewhat as a grand piano (links tend to be bigger and more robust and versatile than parkland) capable of yielding a lot of magical tunes limited only by the imagination and the skill of those who care for them and of those who care to play them in a humble but adventurous spirit.
In this respect we have sought to keep abreast of the evolution of the game and my own evolution as a practitioner of course design.  Both have been rapid and demanding.
Here are just some of the things we have been doing over the years ---
(i) The game of golf has changed a lot since we opened with a links measuring 6,792-yards at Christmas 1992.  Our championship tees, we hosted the Irish Men's Amateur (and the ladies' also) this year, have now slipped back to 7,355-yards with some consequential revisions of the medal and forward tees.  Our ability to strike a hugely wider variety of links set-ups has exploded accordingly.
(ii) My own knowledge and taste continue to evolve and will do so onwards .... so, there have been and will be what I view as improvements always onwards and in this respect it is rewarding to stay with the task over so many years and have the required freedoms.   I feel that this constant worrying and working is an absolute MUST with any golf course aspiring to be excellent ....
(b) Hazard strategy has been reviewed.  Take bunkering where we started-out with just 60 carefully placed pits.  As the game changed this had to change.  It would not do just to move these 60 about, leaving the spaces they had occupied empty, so we have added 41 more.  Consideration has been given to have these function in all respects for as many golfers as possible, playing off varied tees in varied weathers.  Not too easy...as all golfers are so different but one must have a treat and a tease for all!
Of course, we have then gone with our railway tie look to be able to show the locations of the hazards (which have to be sunken on a links in order to stop them from blowing away), to add bold definition and gain some intimidation factor.
(c) The much criticised pond on fairway 18 is gone. The purists would not accept water on a links even though the first such in golf was on the first fairway at St. Andrews.
It took years to figure how an Irishman could hold his water against this criticism and I thank Jean van de Velde and Carnoustie for the solution .... our pond has been transformed into a meandering burn retaining the hazard factor (indeed, enhancing it) while making previous critics happy ... it isn't the water that bothered them as much as the shape of it!
(d) Conditioning.  Ireland suffered a major drought in 1995 and all links were set-back severely. We installed fairway irrigation after that and have chosen to stay green. We have a policy of keeping short and fast to the extent that visitors even from finer clubs worldwide have praised what they find in terms "your fairways are as good as/better than our greens at home." Of course, if we wish, we can go as brown as one might wish in three days at anytime March-November.  Meantime, it is nice to avoid the worst traumas of deep divot holes, which will not grow back in drought conditions, and weeds which thrive when grasses are stressed.
(e) There have been nuanced changes to greens, shaping changes to fairways and so on.   

Trying to stay positive but adding depth to GCA.com............don't get mad Pat!

The look of TEC is similar in spots to Enniscrone, however, it appears to have more detailing around the greens. Stealing from Aiden's website, here is a picture of Enniscrone's 16th which runs along the ocean.



To me this hole looks narrow in the picture, and in fact it plays narrow, especially in the wind.

TEC, from pictures only and this is a discussion group so take it easy , looks narrow in spots, like Enniscrone (so I am first picking on a course that I belong to before taking a cheap shot at another club   ). It is well rated by Digest which makes me think it is a tough test, making me again think that it may be narrow in the wind for the club golfer (me). Is this accurate or inaccurate?

This picture is the PAR-5 third hole.
Most people get it down in front of the green in two (or more) with the land lying to the right opening a gap for the running approach ... providing you stop your second short of gathering bunker!
On the other hand ..... when the Real Tiger visited a few years ago he went drive, 5-iron, 3-foot putt...and there was some wind about.
So, the game can be played!
But ours is a game of skill demands and no mistake.

There has probably been a lot of changes since I played, but the fairways are a little flatter in the European Club than Enniscrone.

Another thing that makes the European Club a little different is one massive green. Is it the same green that has or had a bunker in the middle of it.

Also, the last time I played it, it was suggested that I play all 20 holes.

Then there's the bunkers with the railway wood in them.

The 10th, I think, is also an interesting hole. You have to be right in hte middle of the fairway to see the green.

And, along with the courses Pat mentioned, I would also recommend Arklow. A beautiful subtle links course, with some great holes.

At what time of year were those pictures taken?

I can't imagine a course looking any more spectacular than that, so whenever it was, that must be the perfect time to visit.

Hello SPDB (or whatever)
To answer your question ref visibility of bunker at front of green 3.
Look at the first picture at Post 7 above and you will see the view of the green and the bunker from up the fairway.
We are heavy on visibility at The European Club .... including having a look at those white knuckles on the club (and mentally) as guys wonder have they got what it takes.
All golf isn't played on grass.

Tight versus wide?  
How wide does golf need to be?  Indeed, when is wide golf heading into non-golf or batter-ball country?  
Big questions.

Pat,

Thanks. This crew has never met a fairway that was too wide, so I don't think this is the right place to answer the question.

You are right, it is a BIG question and I do wonder what is the correct answer. On the rare occasion that I break 80, it is typically on a less penal and probably wide golf course with less severe greens. Does that make it a better or worse golf course if I shoot 85 with narrower fairways? Don't really know.

The course looks interesting and challenging and I certainly will look to visit when I finally get over to Ireland to play some golf.  The photos suggest it is a high quality design.

One comment, though.  Doesn't it look rather green?  I'm all in favour of conditioning but is this course firm and fast?  For me that's an absolute requirement of a links course.

Imagine that, a course in Ireland that's green

What's next, the sky's too blue?
(Great pictures by the way)

Great answer by Mr. Ruddy about the seasons.
Firm and fast and (brown) are tough to obtain in the spring and fall if they're particularly wet.
(Although my guess is it's quite firm and quite fast even at its' greenest)


I don't know why they don't just put in the glass bubble to keep that pesky rain off.--- A minimalist bubble though without moving too much dirt

i am yet to play pat's course (even though i have lived in dublin for seven years) so i cannot comment... enjoying reading the thread though... i've only posted here to agree with darren on the 18th at the old course... it is one of my very favourite holes in golf - an absolute gem of a finish