News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


astavrides

  • Karma: +0/-0
abandoned golf courses
« on: October 28, 2006, 09:22:49 PM »
I recently came upon a website that listed all the (known) ghost towns in the country along with pictures of what remains.  

Does anybody know of a similar thing for golf courses?  

For me it wouldn't count if it had been completely replaced by buildings.  I'd like to see some of the holes that havent been maintained for years and what they look like now.

I think there was a scene in one of Shivas Irons books where the author is playing one of these courses in Scotland.

I'm also reminded of the (apocryphal?) story of the first time Sam Snead passed by The Old Course and said, 'Oh look, there's an abandoned golf course.'


Robert Mercer Deruntz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:abandoned golf courses
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2006, 09:56:02 PM »
Daniel Wexler has written two must own books that cover your subject.  

John_Conley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:abandoned golf courses
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2006, 10:00:08 PM »
Around Orlando you will see apartments near Alhambra, but I think you can make out a few playing corridors.

I don't think they are playing right now on the West Course at Grenelefe, formerly in the Top 100 for Golf Digest.

Plenty of courses have been closed for a period of time: Deer Run, Sabal Point, Glen Abbey, Magnolia Plantation, Alaqua, Meadow Woods.  Usually there isn't a better use once they've been built and I think all have reopened.

rboyce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:abandoned golf courses
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2006, 10:49:36 PM »
in myrtle there is Robber's Roost which is visible from the main strip. there are plants growing in the fairways that are 6 feet tall or more. i'm told Bay Tree is in competition for the most overgrown closed course.

Mike_Cirba

Re:abandoned golf courses
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2006, 10:52:52 PM »
Sadly, I drive past a recently abandoned golf course, Alex Findlay's Valley Forge GC (circa 1928), on my way to work each day.  

Before long, it will become a development of some sort.

It hasn't taken long for mother nature to reclaim the site, which is now wildly overgrown with high weeds and grasses such that the greens and bunkers have already become unrecongizable.

It's not a pretty sight.   Although, I must say that from a golf archeological perspective, it was fun tromping thru the woods at Essex Country Club in NJ looking for remnants of Tillinghast's work there.   To find obvious plateaued former tee and green sites with mature trees growing within them was interesting from a sense of discovery and adventure.

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:abandoned golf courses
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2006, 11:59:47 PM »
I do this a lot, trying to find remnants of golden age golf from the California school,

It's haunting to research, go looking and finding remnants of what once was. Just haunting, knowing Max Behr, George Thomas, Alister MacKenzie, Robert Hunter, Billy Bell, even A.W. Tillinghast and others had once trapsed the grounds in search of great golf and finding it. All with-in minutes of my home.

It was very odd to go out to Altadena GC, just north of Pasadena and wander those grounds and actually find remnants of the former Pasadena GC. I not only found greensites, but walking paths, bridges, culverts and catch basins part of the original stuff I saw when I first gawked upon the course in photographs from publications that don't even exist anymore.

Midwick CC, a former glory club of the LA area that counted Will Rogers as one of its more esteemed members, even has remnants of it's former life. I was amazed one day while driving around there, the old water tower seen in images of the clubhouse still exists, still standing in someone's actual back yard!

I'll never forget the day I went to the site of the old San Pedro Golf & CC/The Royal Palms, right on cliffs of the blue Pacific, found not only the original gate, but the actual gatehouse which was owned by the developer. He was vice-president of the local bank in San Pedro, and was later indicted and convicted of stealing money from the bank (more then likely to fund the building of the golf course)

Shortly after his conviction, he went iinto that beautiful house, aptly called, "The Gate House" which features bone fragments and fossiled walls from all sorts of kinds of sea mammals, went up into its crows nest/widow's walk and put a gun to his head and pulled the trigger.

The course tried to remain open, all of it's funds, being invested in the speculative markets that went down during the week of October 29, 1929. And it got so bad, but the course so good that members of the course actually would spend all day on Saturdays maintaining the course themselves preparing it for the weeks use ahead. They played golf this way for several years until finally growth and traspassing signs by the new owner forbade them from doing so. The beautiful cliff's edge twin-building clubhouse lay fallow until 1953 when vandals burined it to the ground, which is ironically the same year it's course designer, Billy Bell would die.

I truely do think that this golf course may have been one of Golf's unheard of gems. The site is spectacular and there are still remnants of open space left where the 17th, a cliffside par 3 once resided.

I recenlty found out where the old Green Hotel golf course was located in Pasadena, literally two blocks away from El Cholo Pasadena. (which is owned by my family friends)

The Green maybe one of the more signifcant golf courses in SoCal golf history, as it is the course where Willie Watson first came to SoCal during his winters to work.

I also found the original site for the LACC, which ironically is located not far from El Cholo Los Angeles. Even the name of the street is still called Country Club drive!

Mike, pains me to hear about Valley Forge. Michael drove me by there on my visit to the actual Valley Forge and it looked like a pretty neat rudimentary, pastaural place.  They should be deballed for tearing it down. Someone should really get midevil on these SOB's.


 
« Last Edit: October 29, 2006, 12:01:56 AM by Tommy Naccarato »

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:abandoned golf courses
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2006, 12:16:56 AM »
Tommy, one of these days I have got to tag along w/ you and see these sites. I had no idea these sites were so close to my home.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:abandoned golf courses
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2006, 12:37:40 AM »
Tommy, that was a great post about the history of LA golf and its abandoned courses.  There was a sort of noir feeling to it, maybe because I'm currently reading "The Black Dahlia" with LA in the 1950s.  Has anyone read Pete Dexter's novel, "Train," about a black caddy in 1950's LA?  Great stuff.  Thanks, Tommy.  :)

Jeff_Stettner

Re:abandoned golf courses
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2006, 01:53:51 AM »
I have no idea what course it is, but there is an abandoned track in Phoenix that I drove by the last time I was in town. The playing corridors, greens and bunkers were all still visible but clearly not maintained.
Folks in Oakland can see what will happen with Lake Chabot in the near future...

Tyler Kearns

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:abandoned golf courses
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2006, 01:56:26 AM »
Only a few blocks from my office does an old abandoned 9-holer reside. It was put to rest about 6-7 years ago to make way for a road extension. The club had always leased the land from the city knowing this was their fate. A separate parcel of land was not paved over, and two golf holes can clearing be seen. I am trying to convince my brother-in-law that to abandon the concept of a chipping green in his backyard, and start maintaining the green complex that exists only 100 yards from his front step.

TK

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:abandoned golf courses
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2006, 01:04:35 AM »
Oyster Bay in / near Myrtle Beach, at last report, was in the state you are requesting.

Outside of Santa Fe there's a brand new course that has it's final nine hole corridors complete with cart paths but no Golf course yet. I forget the name of the place, but it's north of the road on the way to Black Mesa.
If i'm not mistaken it's a Hale Irwin nine.

Another Hale course was somewhat sculpted outside of Sutherland Nebraska. It was a project that is rather infamous because of man named Newkirk who scammed everybody into believing he had sold memberships to this course built on the Applegates Ranch. Stories of how he had the state build a better bridge to accomodate heavy equiptment and how George Bush 41 was coming out to go fishing are priceless, now.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:abandoned golf courses
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2006, 04:09:35 AM »


Have a lot more to post on this soon.  It was a very significant club.
Let's make GCA grate again!

ForkaB

Re:abandoned golf courses
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2006, 04:18:35 AM »
Tony

Look forward to hearing more about RIoW (Bembridge).  Archie Simpson (of Carnoustie) was the pro at Bembridge and went on to design Royal Aberdeen, Murcar and a number of other fine courses in the Grampians and Highlands.

Rich

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:abandoned golf courses
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2006, 04:23:26 AM »
Rich Is he still alive because it's my understanding there was only a skeleton of the club from the 50's on?

Incidently the final info I'm getting came from meeting Anthony Shone at the Buda Cup. He put me in touch with Phillip Truit who has done a lot of research on this and would certainly like to talk to Archie Simpson (if he hasn't already done so).
Let's make GCA grate again!

ForkaB

Re:abandoned golf courses
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2006, 04:29:44 AM »
Tony

Archie was at Bembridge in the 1880's, then at Balgownie (Royal Aberdeen) in the early 20th century before emigrating to America.  He died in Detroit in 1955.  If I knew how to channel him, I would!

Tom Roewer

Re:abandoned golf courses
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2006, 07:25:18 AM »
I'll be in St. Augustine next week for a 1st stage PGA Tour qualifying and am going to attempt to find the sand green locations from the original golf club which was adjacent to the fort (even having one green inside the outer walls and using another outer wall as a cross bunker.  I'll take the plat map that was on GCA in august with measuring wheel and soil core sampler and see what happens.  It seems like great fun to me and will at least keep me out of the Irish Pub by the old city gates for a while.
There's also a remannt from Orange County C.C. outside of Apopka, FL. which was taken by the Fla. Turnpike.  The old main gate columns and archway are still there.  It's pretty cool.

Bill Gayne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:abandoned golf courses
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2006, 07:40:16 AM »
Yorktown CC in Virginia (Flynn) would fall into this category. The Park Service bought the course in the late thirties. Portions of the course was built on the Revolutionary war battlefields and it eventually was converted into a National Historic Park. The course was completely closed in the early fifties. You can still find remnants of the course that was built on the battlefield. Essentially the Park Service closed the course and continued to mow the fields  for the decades that followed. The golf course was built around the redoubts. Today it's a series of large fields with the redoubts still intact.

Other portions of the course have completely disappeared due to the lack of mowing. In the Tidewater section of Virginia the farm to forest timeline is approximately 25 years.

astavrides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:abandoned golf courses
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2006, 08:35:42 AM »
Thanks for all the replies.  Does anybody have pictures besides Tony?  Tommy maybe?

Gary Slatter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:abandoned golf courses
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2006, 08:51:44 AM »
We (Bahamas) seem to specialize in closed courses - you can study courses not used for 25 years (Shannon), for three years (Emerald and Ruby) and everything in between (Great Harbour, Coral Harbour, second nine at Fortune Hills laid out in 1969, South Ocean (soon to be reborn), Cotton Bay, Cape Eleuthra............Fortunately there are new ones here on GBI, Abaco, Exuma, New Providence, but there are plenty closed! and available.
Gary Slatter
gary.slatter@raffles.com

JMorgan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:abandoned golf courses
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2006, 09:31:13 AM »
For what it's worth, a sample of an old tee and an abandoned push-up green from a course I've been working on in Upstate NY:






T_MacWood

Re:abandoned golf courses
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2006, 09:57:34 AM »
Two of the more ghostly abandowned golf courses are Cedar Bank on Cape Cod and Colony outside Detroit.

Cedar Bank is within the Cape Cod National Seashore and is overgrown with brush. It sat on a bluff overlooking Nauset Marsh. I've not gone poking around in there to see if there might be any features of the old course left.

But the most ghostly I've seen is Colony. CH Alison created a golf course out of the St. John's Marsh using the same technique he used at Timber Point and Sea Island. He think it was called suction dredging...whatever it was called they dredged up material from Lake St. Claire to create golf holes within the marshy land.

Today the course has reverted back to one huge marsh. You can kind of make out what look to be pushed up or elevated areas that must have been greens at one time. Very spooky.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2006, 09:58:46 AM by Tom MacWood »

rboyce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:abandoned golf courses
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2006, 11:56:17 AM »
i'd been thinking about the concept of "found courses" as in finding a piece of land that requires relatively minimal work to build a course. "we moved dirt by the teaspoon" etc.

but, this thread made me think about the possibility of someone building a course on a piece of land that was a golf course at one time before reverting to a natural landscape. has a course ever been created on an old course that was *completely* grown back over?

i'm sure many courses have fallen into bad shape and then been recovered. but i'm curious if any have been left untouched for, say, decades and then redone.

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:abandoned golf courses
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2006, 01:01:40 PM »
We (Bahamas) seem to specialize in closed courses - you can study courses not used for 25 years (Shannon), for three years (Emerald and Ruby) and everything in between (Great Harbour, Coral Harbour, second nine at Fortune Hills laid out in 1969, South Ocean (soon to be reborn), Cotton Bay, Cape Eleuthra............Fortunately there are new ones here on GBI, Abaco, Exuma, New Providence, but there are plenty closed! and available.

Gary - How long has South Ocean been closed. Is it supposed to be any better when reopened?

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:abandoned golf courses
« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2006, 02:07:50 PM »


but, this thread made me think about the possibility of someone building a course on a piece of land that was a golf course at one time before reverting to a natural landscape. has a course ever been created on an old course that was *completely* grown back over?

i'm sure many courses have fallen into bad shape and then been recovered. but i'm curious if any have been left untouched for, say, decades and then redone.


Read the interview on here with Alfie Ward.
Let's make GCA grate again!

Brock Peyer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:abandoned golf courses
« Reply #24 on: October 29, 2006, 02:09:31 PM »
Oyster Bay in / near Myrtle Beach, at last report, was in the state you are requesting.

...Adam, I don't think that Oyster Bay is the course that you are thinking of.  I played it in March and it is one of the most played courses in MB.  I may be wrong but I doubt that they are closing it.

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back