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Michael Dugger

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Fazio's Pronghorn (images)
« on: October 27, 2006, 06:52:13 PM »
My head is still spinning from playing Pronghorn Fazio yesterday.  For this middle class guy, my 2nd private club experience (1st one was Eugene CC) absolutely blew me away.  So this is how the other half lives, I thought!!!!

It was a comfortable 50 degrees, zero wind and slightly overcast skies.  Our foursome had the entire golf course to ourselves.  We selected the Black tees, which the card stated measures 6841yds, although I am not so sure about that as our scorekeeper notated we played from the tips on 7 holes.  Admittedly, the tees were also “up” on a few holes but I still bet we played more like 7000 yds.    

Two loops of nine holes, 4 one shot holes, 4 three shot holes, a short par four and a par 3, 4, 5 finishing stretch. 72.7/139 rating and slope from blacks.

--INTRO--

Having followed this project for some time, I came into the round expecting great things.  I know that no less an authority than Tom Doak has gone on record as stating he thought Pronghorn Fazio would receive rave reviews, having toured the construction site previously.  I had never played a Fazio course before so I wasn’t sure what to expect.  I saw a few images of the lava tube hole a month or so ago; some of the scruffy bunkering, etc. and thought it looked outstanding.  Surely, Fazio is a polarizing figure in golf course design, so I tried to be as objective as possible in critiquing his performance.  As expected, the course conditioning was phenomenal, the most immaculate tees, fairways and greens you have ever played.  The putting surfaces rolled quick and true.  Ample sprinkler heads gave us yardages, in addition to the free yardage book (which was epic, BTW) complete with pencil sketches of each green.  Nothing was tricky or gimmicky, very few blind shots asked you to hit towards somewhere you didn’t have an idea about where and where not to be.  

--STRENGTHS—

From the images you are going to see what an epic visual feast this course is.  I take the “visual feast” part from the Pronghorn propaganda itself, it is their catch-phrase, not mine.  But damned if it isn’t spot on.  

A pleasant discovery, Fazio left the front of many greens open.  If you navigate yourself around the course properly, taking risks in some places, avoiding pitfalls in others, you could hit a running shot into many of the greens.  There were “shoots” in some of the fairways, allowing extra yardage to the savvy player if they find these proper places with their tee shots.

The golf course is wide, if you can’t find these fairways you suck with the driver.  Everything is pretty much right out in front of you.  Very few lost balls, although I did find a lot of sand.  Most holes are self- contained, the challenge is laid out in front of you.  Our host guided us on half-a-dozen holes, explaining that this green or that funnels or falls away to a particular side, thus encouraging us to “play for it.”  He was correct on most occasions--which only enhanced the golf experience—nothing beats watching your ball feed in towards the cup.

The par 3 8th hole (the lava tube hole) is unreal.  I have never seen anything like it in my life.  Playing into the sun, it was hard to see our balls and judge the distance.  I was kinda spooked, and six shots later did not have a great taste in my mouth for it.  But it is one of those “one of a kind” type of things that has to be considered a plus, not a negative.  It played about 165 yards, yesterday, surely nothing too unreasonable.  Our host mentioned they dynamited both it and much of the 7th hole into existence.  From the pictures you can see what I am talking about, it reminded me of “adventure land” at Disneyland.  You walking into, through, up and out of a veritable maze of rock walls and shelves.  It is really cool.          

--WEAKNESSES--

Most of this will be nitpicking, but that’s what we are here for!  As I played the course I was reminded what Tom Doak said about our Pumpkin Ridge, here in Portland.  He said that years later he had difficulty remembering any individual holes and that must be considered a drawback to any “best of” design.  Thinking back on Pronghorn, I have a similar thought.  The bunkering is amazing, unbelievable, some of the best I have ever seen, but it is so overwhelming and similar that many of the holes begin to meld into one.  Ask me about the 2nd or 3rd or 5th and I will have to think hard about what makes them different from one another because they all kinda seem like the same hole.  There is little “quirk,” no Devil’s A-hole or something beyond the lava tube hole, which is the stuff legends are made of, right?

The 6th hole is out of place with the rest of the course.  An artificial looking pond with two weird little brook/streams/waterfalls meandering down the length of the hole.  Maybe in time it will mature and blend in a little better but for now it is by far the weakest, least thrilling hole on the entire course, IMHO.  
 
While the tees will dictate much of this next complaint, I played 9 iron, 6 iron, 6 iron and SW on the par 3’s.  The 16th will also be between 150-200 yards when allowed to be played from the proper tee boxes.  We played from a temp tee 85 yards out because a smidge of the back nine is still growing in.  A lot of hydroseed was still evident.  I, personally, could have gone for a brutish one-shotter, up a hill or something.  Perhaps a little postage stamp green somewhere.  I took a picture of each of the par 3’s, they are a good set, to be sure, so this is a MINOR deduction.  

Last but not least, let’s talk about the shaping.  A definite strength of the course is the ground game options, however I felt the contours around the green were almost too subtle.  Many of the greens had a lot of chipping room around them, some bumps and knolls, little plateauxs where when the pin was located atop them made for some devilish shots.  But, I wished for a little bit more.  In some places I found myself eyeballing a backstop, or rather it looked like a shot played with some creativity, thought and finesse might funnel towards the hole.  It never worked out to my satisfaction, however, a high wedge with a lot of stick-um on it would check and trickle, but never more than five or ten feet.  In these cases I wished for contours more like we find at Pacific Dunes (a little steeper) so the ball could pick up some more momentum, move around a bit more.

I opted to walk.  Our host took a cart on the back.  Some local knowledge would have spared my aching feet.  A big course, some of the walks between holes took their toll.  I don’t think I would want to walk this course everyday.  Is this a plus or minus, I guess it depends on the player.  I will say this, the course did not have any severe up hill nor downhill holes.  I was thankful not to have to trek up a hill like to the 14th tee at Bandon Trails, but I found myself yearning for a better vantage point to see the awesome “Three Sisters” mountain range which overlooks all of the Bend courses.  If I designed the course, I would have “built up” at least one or two tee boxes to allow better views of the mountains and to give the player that fantastic experience of watching their blasted tee ball hanging up amongst the clouds before returning to earth.      


--SUMMARY--

If Tom Doak rates Pumpkin Ridge and Eugene CC a 6 on his scale, and his own Pacific Dunes is around a 9 or 10, I would give Pronghorn Fazio an 8.  It had one weak hole—a hole that didn’t fit with the rest--and that’s about it.  Like I said earlier, this was my first Fazio so I don’t have a Pine Barrens, Black Diamond, Wade Hampton or Dallas Nat’l to compare it to, for example.  I came away duly impressed, however, and while I’ve never been anti-Fazio, I tried to “get” this whole “framing” notion that Tommy and some of the others around here consider a negative of Da Faz.  In my opinion, the Fazio crew transitioned the golf course into the native landscape as well as anything I’ve seen, including all 3 Bandon courses.  I snapped a few pictures where the terrain went from rock out-cropping right into bunker sand right into turf.  Some designers get this and do a good job with it, some so do not.  For me, personally, it is uber important that the golf course fits harmoniously into the landscape.  Pronghorn does this in spades.

Our host said they imported the wicked, crusty old Juniper trees that you can see here and there from some nearby BLM land.  I dig these trees, they are ruggedly beautiful.  If much of this landscape was “created,” I could hardly tell.  It was utterly fantastic and what I consider a soul stirring experience.  We drove three hours there and back in one day to play the course and all Chris and I could do on the trip home was blather on about this hole or that.  

All in all it was one of the best golfing days of my life; enhanced by the service and country club lifestyle to be sure, but even if this was a municipal course in Springfield (Simpsons reference here!) it would be a phenomenal course.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2006, 06:56:51 PM by Michael Dugger »
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Michael Dugger

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Re:Fazio's Pronghorn (images)
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2006, 07:00:21 PM »
1st tee



Approach



Approach



Mountain Views!



Approach to 2nd green



Approach to #2



greenside bunker #2



3rd tee



3rd green



4th tee



Juniper tree



5th tee



5th green



6th tee



6th green



7th tee



7th approach



7th green



walk from 7 to 8



8th tee



8th hole again



9th tee



great transition!!!



9th approach



9th green



10th tee



10th approach



nasty little pot bunker (my ball in it)



Looking back up 10th fairway



11th tee



difficult 13th green



14th tee



14th approach



14th green



15th green



16th tee



17th right hand green (two greens a la Pine Valley)



18th tee



18th approach



18th green



sunset

« Last Edit: October 27, 2006, 07:21:03 PM by Michael Dugger »
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Dan_Callahan

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Re:Fazio's Pronghorn (images)
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2006, 07:20:30 PM »
Thanks for the pictures. That is one different looking course. Looks like a nuclear wasteland . . . in a good way.

wsmorrison

Re:Fazio's Pronghorn (images)
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2006, 07:27:45 PM »
Very impressive, Michael.  Thank you for opening my eyes to this course.  From what I could see in the photos, the only thing I didn't like were the tee markers.  Pretty awful.  I would gladly play that course if I were travelling anywhere nearby.

PThomas

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Re:Fazio's Pronghorn (images)
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2006, 07:30:23 PM »
thanks Mike!
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Michael Dugger

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Re:Fazio's Pronghorn (images)
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2006, 07:33:30 PM »
Very impressive, Michael.  Thank you for opening my eyes to this course.  From what I could see in the photos, the only thing I didn't like were the tee markers.  Pretty awful.  I would gladly play that course if I were travelling anywhere nearby.

My buddy kinda teed his ball up fairly near one of those tee markers and we all got a laugh imagining what those antlers would do to the shaft of your club if they caught it.

The pronghorn tee markers are solid steel
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Mike_Sweeney

Re:Fazio's Pronghorn (images)
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2006, 07:40:30 PM »
Michael,

I don't think I have ever seen such a unique course since Paul Turner posted Hirono. Thanks for posting.

Garland Bayley

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Re:Fazio's Pronghorn (images)
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2006, 07:47:35 PM »
Are the fairways as smooth and lacking undulation/movement as they look in the pictures?

I know if I were to walk off course I would have to be stepping over things and watching for turned ankles. If I walk on course, is it almost akin to walking pavement?
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Bill Gayne

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Re:Fazio's Pronghorn (images)
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2006, 07:48:50 PM »
Michael,

Thanks making the effort to share the photos. Is #8 a short par three and part of an old quarry? It looks like some extensive rock clearing on the walk from #7 to #8.

Michael Dugger

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Re:Fazio's Pronghorn (images)
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2006, 07:51:38 PM »
Are the fairways as smooth and lacking undulation/movement as they look in the pictures?

I know if I were to walk off course I would have to be stepping over things and watching for turned ankles. If I walk on course, is it almost akin to walking pavement?


I would describe the movement in the fairways as more broad, not the little wrinkles that we see at links courses.

It's difficult to capture that kind of elevation change with a camera :-\

They are far from flat, however, a good many dead elephants out there.

And yes, the rocky gunk and hairy bunkers make for careful walking.

But I didn't really find myself out there too much and I can be quite wild.  The playing corridors are ample.
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Michael Dugger

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Re:Fazio's Pronghorn (images)
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2006, 07:54:51 PM »
Michael,

Thanks making the effort to share the photos. Is #8 a short par three and part of an old quarry? It looks like some extensive rock clearing on the walk from #7 to #8.

No, I do not believe the property was ever a quarry.  As I thought I mentioned, a lot of dynamite was used in blowing up the amphitheatre where the 7th green sits.  

They also blew up a lot of where the 8th is, and uncovered some super cool ancient lava tubes.  You could walk into these things.  There is a picture of Fazio going over blueprints within the tubes circulating around somewhere.

Central Oregon is a volcanic wonder, high desert landscape on the back side of the cascades.  A lot of really neat geologic features in this area.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2006, 07:56:15 PM by Michael Dugger »
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Tom_Doak

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Re:Fazio's Pronghorn (images)
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2006, 08:09:01 PM »
Michael:
 
Thanks for the pictures.  I was out there a week ago flagging the clearing for our new course (which is somewhere between 5-10 miles north of Pronghorn), and though I didn't have time to go back myself, I sent my associate Brian Slawnik over to see the state of the art (and the course our client wants us to surpass).

It looked like they did a great job of framing the mountains in the background of the 11th hole, the sun was just wrong for a good picture when you got there.  It's tough to do it more than a couple of times in a round.

When I was there a year ago, I asked which of Tom Fazio's associates was on site the most, but I can't remember the name which John Anderson shared with me.  Whoever it was, he did a great job.

P.S.  You are right about the sixth hole.  If they had known how good that greenside bunker was going to turn out, they could've saved themselves a heck of a lot of money by deleting the water feature.

David Stamm

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Re:Fazio's Pronghorn (images)
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2006, 08:13:54 PM »
Thnaks so much for sharing Michael. Wonderful photos! A very unique looking course.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Jay Flemma

Re:Fazio's Pronghorn (images)
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2006, 08:14:18 PM »
This looks really cool...nice to see the bunkering be something different form tired old cloverleaf.

John Foley

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Re:Fazio's Pronghorn (images)
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2006, 08:46:18 PM »
Micheal - Thanks for the great pics. Sure looks stunning.

Few questions:

 - looks pretty flat. How much elevation change on the holes?
 - Looks like a lot of use of chipping area's, but those area's may be too flat. Is that the case?

I for one like the antler tee markers & the old gnarled trees. Really cool additions.
Integrity in the moment of choice

Tim Copeland

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Re:Fazio's Pronghorn (images)
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2006, 08:48:46 PM »
Thanks for the pics.......the supt has to have a $2mil budget to hand mow all of the bunkers within bunkers.

Didnt look like typical Fazio greens.

I also wonder what the construction budget was.......had to be tough to get the mix to the 8th green...unless there is an opening I am not seeing

Thanks again for the effort
I need a nickname so I can tell all that I know.....

cary lichtenstein

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Re:Fazio's Pronghorn (images)
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2006, 09:24:54 PM »
Bette and I toured this course in July and 1st of all, the pictures posted are terrific and the course is even better than the pictures.

The 8th will be the most photographed hole in 2007, it will appear in every publication, its that unique.

What else is in the running for 2007 as best new private? Could this be a runaway????????????

This 2 some, the Nicklaus/Fazio courses are the best 2 at any one site for a summer destination that we have run into.
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Jimmy Muratt

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Re:Fazio's Pronghorn (images)
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2006, 09:25:36 PM »
The description of a "visual feast" is spot-on.  It looks very impressive.  With the subtle movement in the greens, perhaps they plan to the route of very fast surfaces, 11+ on the stimp.  The bunkering looks fantastic, similar to Fazio's recent work at Forest Creek North.

Living in the Bend area must be exciting these days with the recent course openings and more exciting projects on the near horizon.  

Jimmy Muratt

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Re:Fazio's Pronghorn (images)
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2006, 09:29:45 PM »
The Pronghorn website has good course tours of both the Fazio and Nicklaus courses.  Here is a link to the Fazio course tour:

http://tinyurl.com/yzd8h7

Michael Dugger

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Re:Fazio's Pronghorn (images)
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2006, 09:32:59 PM »


Few questions:

 - looks pretty flat. How much elevation change on the holes?
 - Looks like a lot of use of chipping area's, but those area's may be too flat. Is that the case?


John

The elevation change is indeed something I considered in evaluating the "totality" of the project.  (love ya, Matt!)

As I mentioned in my review, I would have liked a couple of elevated tees, myself, the views are fantastic out there.  There is nothing on the whole Pronghorn development that would consititute a mountain, bluff, butte or canyon.  The 14th hole had the most elevation change, according to my internal compass, moving from some slightly elevated tee pads across a depression/dip to an uphill green.  That is the hole with the tremendous central bunker complex.  It was definately uphill, but NOTHING compared to what uphill constitutes on the 14th at Bandon Trails, for example.  I would venture to guess there is no place on the property anymore than 40-50 feet above the lowest place.

That said.......there is movement.  On a few occasions I could not see my target.  This might have been, however, because I was in the totally wrong place!!!

In regards to the chipping areas, as I also mentioned in my review, I feel like more opportunity for spin back shots and what not would have been afforded with a little more severe sloping.  It was quite subtle, but subtle isn't necessarily bad.  The chipping game was plenty challenging.  Some of the pin placements resided atop "crowns."  It was refreshing to see a good number of crowns out there, that's challenging stuff!!!  
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Fazio's Pronghorn (images)
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2006, 09:33:04 PM »
I think that Fazio and Co. did some really good bunkering that fit the site from the pics. I even see a little red paint on a bunker lip...a little more tweaking? Place looks great and I understand the the conditioning is flawless!

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Fazio's Pronghorn (images)
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2006, 09:35:58 PM »
The description of a "visual feast" is spot-on.  It looks very impressive.  With the subtle movement in the greens, perhaps they plan to the route of very fast surfaces, 11+ on the stimp.  The bunkering looks fantastic, similar to Fazio's recent work at Forest Creek North.

Living in the Bend area must be exciting these days with the recent course openings and more exciting projects on the near horizon.  

Jimmy,

I suspect you are probably correct about the greens.  It might just have been an anamoly that I could not get the ball to move around a lot.  Our host did say the greens had not been running as fast as usual.

That or I don't put as much back spin on the ball as I'd like to think!!! ;)
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Tim Copeland

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Re:Fazio's Pronghorn (images)
« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2006, 09:37:52 PM »
I think that Fazio and Co. did some really good bunkering that fit the site from the pics. I even see a little red paint on a bunker lip...a little more tweaking? Place looks great and I understand the the conditioning is flawless!

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC



Changes?!?!?!  On a Fazio?!?!!?  What are the odds.........
I need a nickname so I can tell all that I know.....

Anthony_Nysse

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Re:Fazio's Pronghorn (images)
« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2006, 10:00:19 PM »
Tim,
  I'd bet that it's over $2 Million. I know that their fairways are mowed with triplexs at .25 inch and Mr. Anderson is a HUGE believer in handwatering, in fact, a collegue of my remarked that when he played the Nickluas, there was several employees handwatering fairways. This is also how Mr. Anderson is able to keep his funigicides to a minumum. In fact, they do not use herbicides for control of weeds-that's right, they are hand picked. as quoted in Golfweek Super News
  "With the exception of a half rate fungicide application each fall to help ward off snow mold, Anderson uses no pesticides, and he is trying to find a chemical free alternative for his limited fungicide use. He applies 2.5-3 punds of nitrogen per 1000 feet per year, all thorugh foliar applications, which he said produces almost no leaching."
  Environmentally friendly, but not on the pocket!

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

« Last Edit: October 27, 2006, 10:01:33 PM by Anthony_Nysse »
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Tim Bert

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Re:Fazio's Pronghorn (images)
« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2006, 10:46:07 PM »
I know we aren't supposed to pass judgment based on pictures, but this one looks like a lot of fun to me.

Thanks for posting!

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