[Bill Brightly]

What is the key to keeping the turf around cross bunkers in good shape?

I've seen beautiful cross bunkers (like Plainfield's 16th) but also picture of holes where the carts have worn paths in front and to the sides. I've also seen ugly macadam on the outsides of cross bunkers, and this would be totally unaceptable at our course.

Our course was designed to have several sets of cross bunkers but they were never built.  (We assume the club leaders in the 20's made the architect scale back his plans.) We're considering putting them in now but since we get have a significant amount of cart traffic, we worry about the turf. What is the key? Or is it a simple fact that carts and cross bunkers don't go together in today's game?

[Matt_Ward]

Bill:

Why the need to have carts ride near the cross bunkers in the first place ?

Is too much to ask that people do just a bit of walking to get to their ball when it lands in such an area.

Would like to know more about the club you mentioned and the length of the hole involved.

Thanks ...

[Bill Brightly]

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We don't need the carts near the cross bunkers, but we do need to get them past or arond them...So my question is what's the best way to build cross bunkers to avoid excessive wear. If you look at the picture on this website of the 15th at St. Louis, it shows what carts can do around cross bunkers, and how bad macadam looks if you try that. (I wish I knew how to post a picture...)

Our course is a MacRaynor, so cross bunkers are definitely in keeping with our style.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

I just wonder whether cross-bunkers are a modern thing.  I love them on the sort of old-fashioned courses that people of my pathetic length and general inability frequent, but they are largely irrelevant to today's best amateurs or professionals.  If they are relevant to them they are irrelevant to us.  If they are relavent to us thery are irrelevant to them.   I'd love cross-bunkers to be a significant modern feature, but I fear we are too late.

[Jim Sweeney]

Mark, I don't understand why you believe cross bunkers are irrelevant today.

I've seen several examples of cross bunkers which are very relevant to the scratch or professinal golfer on modern courses, most noteably at Wolf Run outside Indianapolis, IN and Persimmon ridge in Louisville, KY.

Perhaps the question should be, "must a cross bunker be all things to all golfers on a particualr hole?" In other words, it may be that on a particular hole the cross bunker affects (mostly) the highly skilled golfer, while a cross bunker on a different holf affects (mostly)the less skilled golfer. Would such emplotment of these hazards be equitable? I don't see why not.

[tonyt]

If they are relevant to them they are irrelevant to us.  If they are relavent to us thery are irrelevant to them.   I'd love cross-bunkers to be a significant modern feature, but I fear we are too late.

I get the drift of your point. But I think it would be sad to label them so. If they are heroic to the masses, and the masses are the members of the club, then salute!

If we are able to position fairway bunkers off the tee to be relevant and in play, then cross bunkers can also possibly play a similar role. Particularly if on a three shot hole. Heroic for the second shot of the elite, and more often than not a third shot challenge to the average golfer. Either because they are short hitting or have had to play a recovery second or are out of position.

[Michael Dugger]

I don't see why you have to keep your cross bunkers in good shape?

Crumbled edges are en vogue.

 

[James Bennett]

Bill Brightly

have you seen the actual cross-bunkers at Plainfield #16 in person?  

If so, I expect you should have an answer.  Width.  There is significant fairway way left of the cross-bunker, such that it becomes more of a wide fairway hazard, rather than a bunker stretching the width of the fairway.  So, for a 40 yard fairway bunker, have a 60 yard fairway.  It helps to have the land available (which Plainfield on this occasion does).

If you haven't seen the hole, please respond and we'll see what pictures we have up our sleeve to illustrate the issue.

James B

[Bill Brightly]

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James B:  Yes, I've played Plainfield's 16th many times. Of course you are right, the hole is extremely wide at the point of the cross bunkers. I always walk when I play there, and I'm trying hard to remember how carts get past the bunkers. I think carts must go way left or right, not between the bunkers. I know that there is also a wide area of rough outside the fairway, which probably allows carts to scatter rather than wear out a path.

So I guess the answer is width. (We have good width on the holes in question.)

[James Bennett]

Bill

here is a picture of #16 from April 06.  The rebuild has a lot more area to the left of the bunkers than is apparent from the current google map that shows the previous version.

April 06 - cart tracks visible to the left of the bunker complex, 'goat' tracks only through the bunker complex.

Older Google aerial - cross-bunkers appeared wider.


James B (a 'goat')

[James Bennett]

Bill

here are two other solutions for carts and buggies/trollies.  Hope this helps.

The first one is Pebble Beach #6 fairway bunker.  Look between the first and second island and you will see a path within the bunker to allow access from one side to the other.  It is a solid material, within the bunker.


The second one is from Monterey Peninsula CC Shore Course - the Stranz solution.  The sand in this waste area is packed pretty firm, and you just drive straight through it!  A little like Pine Valley and foot traffic with the heroic carries (I don't know of cart use at Pine Valley, just foot traffic.  The sand at Pine Valley is not packed though).


James B

[Bill Brightly]

James: Thanks for the pictures. I forgot how much fairway there is to the left on Plainfield's 16th. I think that is the solution that will work best. Carts in the trap really wouldn't work, the mounding is too high. But those are neat solutions on the right course. (I am surpised there isn't more wear on the turf where carts enter and exit the trap.) Thanks again!

[James Bennett]

Bill

I agree that the Plainfield aolution is best.  The Pebble option seems to be used for players needing to get from one side to the other of 70 yard long flanking bunkers, rather than cross bunkers.

James B

[TEPaul]

Bill Brightly:

It may not be the carts that are damaging fairway turf around those cross bunkers---it may be the tires on the mowers. Mowing around features that are in or jut out into fairways can be a real problem on fairway turf but there is a way to minimize that damage to some extent.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Bill Brightly,

With heavy use of golf carts I don't know that you can eliminate wear.

GCGC has a number of cross bunkers that extend across the entire fairway and into the rough.

The best bet is to try to create traffic patterns as reasonably removed from the feature as possible, and, if you have the luxury of available land, moving them from time to time.

The critical issue is to not let the paths come too close to the cross bunker.  The paths can always be resodded.

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