[John Kavanaugh]

The pics of the clubhouse are fantastic but the bunkers are a distracting unstrategic mess...or is it just me.  note: Never been there.

[ForkaB]

John

Its the "throw enough darts at a page of the Wall Street Journal and you'll find a winner" school of GCA.  I could be wrong, but didn't Mackenzie die essentially bankrupt?

Rich

[John Kavanaugh]

Is the bunker on a hill behind the green a Mackenzie staple..

[John Kavanaugh]

Pic..

[Tim Copeland]

Bunkers are used to penalize and they are also used to intimidate.......I havent been there but maybe from the fairway it(they) look close to the green to intimidate.

That pic angle may not be from the area that shows em off the best

[Evan_Green]

The pics of the clubhouse are fantastic but the bunkers are a distracting unstrategic mess...or is it just me.  note: Never been there.

John

I believe the purpose of those bunkers is to distract the golfer and make the approach visually more difficult - e.g. harder to concentrate - depth perception issues etc...

They attract your eye instead of the pin.

From personal experience, they worked- I skulled my wedge shot into the green...

[Bill_McBride]

The pics of the clubhouse are fantastic but the bunkers are a distracting unstrategic mess...or is it just me.  note: Never been there.

Where is Patrick Mucci when you need him?  This could be the most egregious example of analysis by photo in the history of GCA.com!

While they may appear to be out of play, I have been in one of those "scare" bunkers on the hillside behind #15 (pictured) and also behind #3, one of golf's most difficult par 4s, and it is a terrifying situation.  Downhill to an 11 stimping bent green, hello!  

[Tim Copeland]

The pics of the clubhouse are fantastic but the bunkers are a distracting unstrategic mess...or is it just me.  note: Never been there.

Where is Patrick Mucci when you need him?  This could be the most egregious example of analysis by photo in the history of GCA.com!

While they may appear to be out of play, I have been in one of those "scare" bunkers on the hillside behind #15 (pictured) and also behind #3, one of golf's most difficult par 4s, and it is a terrifying situation.  Downhill to an 11 stimping bent green, hello!  

Intimidation comes in many forms

[John_Cullum]

Somebody told me that Dr. MacK was into camouflage......

That's the biggest crock ever attempted to be sold. Dr. Mack's knowledge of camoflauge  is on par with the knowledge of mathematics of the guy who invented counting on your fingers and toes.

[Scott_Burroughs]

John,

In case you were wondering, the bunkers were restored to look like they did when the course first opened:

now:


then (1929, shortly before opening):


and zoomed-in aerial from 1930:

[HamiltonBHearst]

Don't Rees Jones mounds also "distract" the golfer?
 Kavanaugh looks to be spot on here with this photo.  The two bunkers in front could serve a purpose or create depth perception issues, the other four serve no purpose and only help with depth perception regardless of where Mr. Greens's wedge ended up.

[Aaron Katz]

Depending on the angle of approach and how far uphill the shot is, it may well be that the front bunker obscures the bottom parts of the back bunkers.  In other words, the player will see the front bunker, which will (wrongly) appear very close to the front edge of the green, and only the middle and tops of the back bunkers will be in view for the player.  This will leave the player wrongly thinking the that the pin is pinched narrowly between both front and back bunkers, when in reality both sets are quite a ways from the putting surface.  

By the way, I "walked on" the Valley Club a few months ago to take a look at some holes and I found the bunkering utterly inspired.

[Mike Benham]

PS--what's the penalty for hitting one of the illegal aliens picking deer doodoo out of the bunkers on the right?

There was a big political disagreement in Orange County a few years back and the result was the that term "illegal alien" is insensitive and un-PC.  The proper word is "undocumented worker".

[Tom_Doak]

John Cullum:

You obviously have never read either of Dr. MacKenzie's two articles on camouflage.  They are fascinating.  The second is actually a total paraphrasing of a "British camouflage expert" which was reprinted in the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers journal, and is probably still the best article they've ever published on the subject.

It may well be something of a crock to say that the Doc's knowledge of camouflage was essential to his practice of golf course architecture, but he WAS an expert on the subject, no doubt about that.

As for the bunkers around the 15th green at The Valley Club -- Robert Hunter, who was around for the construction (MacKenzie was not), apparently was very enamored with bunkers which overlapped each other and blended together from a distance.  The 15th is an uphill par five, and when you are 200-250 yards out, that bunker up the hill behind the green appears right on top of the green, while the others on the right overlap so much it's impossible to tell what is in front of the green and what is behind.  The illusion goes away when you get up to 100 yards out, as shown in this picture.  The bunkers aren't especially strategic, although only one or two of them are really out of play to anything but a skulled wedge.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Hammy,
To put it in your terms, say your trying too get the sloop out of harbor, to do so means you have to negotiate your way, or in your case, "Tact" your way past the 40' Hatteras on the left, steer 20 degrees starboard and get past the Phil Rothschild's Sea Star (a rather large but grand vessel) on your right. Doing it, you have to remember how close and far away these vessel's really are.....

[Peter_Herreid]

Well, it's not quite from as far back as 200-250 yds out on #15, but this one from 150-175 yds or so shows a bit more of what Tom is describing...



..and for fun, here is the view up the dogleg-left 18th, demonstrating more of the bunkering pattern.  The 15th green is visible to the right of the 18th green...

[John Kavanaugh]

So that's what Nicklaus was trying to do in Myrtle Beach..

[John_Cullum]

Tom D

Those articles might be fascinating reading, but the camoflauge design Mackenzie came up with wouldn't fool Jeremiah.

The bathrooms at Augusta National are green, but I never had trouble finding them.

Note: Jeremiah is my two year old grandson.

[Evan_Green]

The pics of the clubhouse are fantastic but the bunkers are a distracting unstrategic mess...or is it just me.  note: Never been there.

John

I believe the purpose of those bunkers is to distract the golfer and make the approach visually more difficult - e.g. harder to concentrate - depth perception issues etc...

They attract your eye instead of the pin.

From personal experience, they worked- I skulled my wedge shot into the green...

Ev, maybe - just maybe - you bladed the wedge because you made a crappy swing...

Shhhh.... don't tell!!  

[Evan_Green]

Does anyone have any pictures of the holes across Sheffield Road (#3-12?)

[Michael Dugger]

Boring thread

[John Kavanaugh]

Boring thread

Yea, don't ya hate it when Doak discusses MacKenzie theory..

[John Kavanaugh]

John,

In case you were wondering, the bunkers were restored to look like they did when the course first opened:

now:


then (1929, shortly before opening):


and zoomed-in aerial from 1930:

Who did the renovation work...shame they added the cloth things over the windows of the clubhouse.  By the look of the shade the tree is still by the bunker...and that's nice.

[Tim Copeland]

Boring thread

Nah...sniveling like 4 year olds over architect society is boring stuff......this is what it is all about

[Joshua Pettit]

Tom makes a good point but I also believe the bunkers surrounding the 15th green complex, particularly the one on the hillside behind the green, are meant to be seen as an extension of the fairway bunker complexes on the 18th fairway when standing on the 18th tee looking toward the clubhouse.  Originally there was a site bunker in the 18th fairway approximately 30 yards in front the the first existing bunker complex.  Also the trees to the left of the fairway blocking the driving range weren't there and the Eucalyptus trees in front of the 15th green were considerably smaller which would have allowed the bunkers surrounding 15th green to be visible from the 18th tee.  From the proper angle all of these bunkers would have bled together to create a very pleasing vista.  

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