[Tom Renli]

Did I miss the post summarizing the event?  If not can someone post the results and provide any new insight on PV.  Thanks.

[Andy Scanlon]

Tom:

If you're in the area, you're in luck...gates to PVGC will be open this Sunday, 10/1, at 1:00pm to watch the finals of the Crump Cup.  Chance of rain, though...

[Bryce Mueller]

i would love a report as well on the golf, and more importantly the course... i wanna know how those guys are enjoying the back tees on 6 and 15, and 16, and 18... its  brutal from back there

[JESII]

http://www.golfweek.com/amateur/mens/index.php


I'll check back in tomorrow with some thoughts, but the course was awesome.

[Andy Scanlon]

i wanna know how those guys are enjoying the back tees on...18... its  brutal from back there

I followed a group that included Buddy Marucci and Trip Kuehne on the back nine.  On 18, 481 yds per the card, Buddy made the fairway by about a foot.  Another member of the group came up a few inches short of the fairway.  Don't know how well either of them hit their tee ball, though.

[Bryce Mueller]

it feels a lot longer than 481 from that back tee, i know that...

anybody know if trip tried to go for either of the par 5s??

[Andy Scanlon]

Can't speak to what he did at 7, but he did not go for the green at 15.  He hooked his first tee shot into the woods,  his ball was found but he elected to go back to the tee.  He hit a good tee shot for this third.  He laid up his fourth shot to approximately where the level portion of the fairway runs out.  He hit the green with his fifth shot and made a curling 15 footer for one of the best sixes I have ever seen.

[JeffTodd]

Tripp laid up with his second on #7 as well.

[mike_malone]

 I thought of "enclave" as I strolled the grounds yesterday.

   I ran into Andy on the way in and he commented on the list of municipal officials on the building just inside the gates. I suggested that they probably all sit at one desk.


    I crossed from #15 through the trees to # 13 (?) and noticed the steepness of that terrain. It gave me a further appreciation for the routing. As I approached the tee I noticed the foursome about to tee off. The first shot went into the trees some 30 yards past me. I found the ball for the player but it was unplayable. I followed him back to the tee since I was heading out.
   After he hit his tee shot and walked on I told him
 " However you are doing it is better than the rest of us".


     The width of the fairways and the size and contours of the greens is so special. But I still don't get the pines in the bunkers that flank doglegs. I also don't get the evergreens on the right side of the hill short of #15 green.

     

[Mike Hoak]

I had the pleasure of attending the Crump Cup this weekend.  I was completely blown away by the golf course.  The scale of the hazards has to be seen firsthand to appreciate.  I was also suprised to find that several holes are open to bump and run shots.  I also noticed that the club must have embarked on a substantial tree clearing program since the pictures in Ran's review were taken.  Some highlights for me included:

1. The green countours on 3 and 16.
2. The tiny green at 8.

Overall, it was a great experience.  I found the members to be extraordinarily kind and more than happy to share information about the golf course.

[SPDB]

Mayday - Traversing 15 to 13 seems like a harrowing experience. Did you bring a machete with you to the Crump Cup?

I know what you about the 15th. As the picture below shows, notwithstanding the current tree clearing program, there is still a lot of work left to be done. Similar views can be found throughout the course.

[Mike_Cirba]

Mayday,

I'm surprised you didn't pick out at least 500 trees you'd liked removed.   How do you like the ones guarding the new back tee on 9 from tee shots on 7?

And, since I'm a bunker guy I have to ask;

Is there a reason that almost all of the more standard bunkers such as the one short of 7 green, right short on 9, etc., all now have grass faces almost to the bunker floor?

I've never seen PV so "grassed" in my life.   Someone here recently challenged my assessment of the bunkers having been "cleaned up".   Well, that was my last year's assessment.   This year, some are sadly looking positively pedestrian.

Between the uniform rows of vegetation wide enough to drive a sand pro through to the planting of love grass every three feet in the front bunker on 7, I know it's probably the height of GCA PC-dom to never criticize PV, but I'm concerned we're watching something very special and formerly unique slip away....the bunkering...not the course.

[JESII]

Is there a reason that almost all of the more standard bunkers such as the one short of 7 green, right short on 9, etc., all now have grass faces almost to the bunker floor?

My guess is maintenance expense primarily, with playability a second possibility.

I've never seen PV so "grassed" in my life.   Someone here recently challenged my assessment of the bunkers having been "cleaned up".   Well, that was my last year's assessment.   This year, some are sadly looking positively pedestrian.

That certainly is a good sign for your golf travels then Mike, for Pine Valley to begin to look pedestrian you must be playing some great places.

Between the uniform rows of vegetation wide enough to drive a sand pro through to the planting of love grass every three feet in the front bunker on 7, I know it's probably the height of GCA PC-dom to never criticize PV, but I'm concerned we're watching something very special and formerly unique slip away....the bunkering...not the course.

To the contrary Michael, that actually seems to be a requirement these days.

I wonder, since growth regulator has become quite widespread in its application to greens and fairways, is there a recipe that could be cooked up to work on trees?

[Tim Copeland]

Is there a reason that almost all of the more standard bunkers such as the one short of 7 green, right short on 9, etc., all now have grass faces almost to the bunker floor?

My guess is maintenance expense primarily, with playability a second possibility.

I've never seen PV so "grassed" in my life.   Someone here recently challenged my assessment of the bunkers having been "cleaned up".   Well, that was my last year's assessment.   This year, some are sadly looking positively pedestrian.

That certainly is a good sign for your golf travels then Mike, for Pine Valley to begin to look pedestrian you must be playing some great places.

Between the uniform rows of vegetation wide enough to drive a sand pro through to the planting of love grass every three feet in the front bunker on 7, I know it's probably the height of GCA PC-dom to never criticize PV, but I'm concerned we're watching something very special and formerly unique slip away....the bunkering...not the course.

To the contrary Michael, that actually seems to be a requirement these days.

I wonder, since growth regulator has become quite widespread in its application to greens and fairways, is there a recipe that could be cooked up to work on trees?

Primo....Chainsaw version

[mike_malone]

  When PVGC was opened don't you think the expansiveness of the hazards, greens, and fairways was extremely distinctive? Don't you think it would be equally as dramatic today ?

   So, the surrounding trees are more of a nuisance than a benefit to me.

[JESII]

Sorry Mayday, I can't remember that far back.

Since you apparently can, Forrest has a question for you on another thread going on right now. Check it out.

[JESII]

The serious answer to your question is the removal of all trees would almost definitely add to the visual dramatics, especially on holes like 6, 9, 13, 14 and 15. Are you suggesting Crump intended no trees on the property?

[mike_malone]

 Jim,

    Based on previous threads on this topic of trees at PVGC , I feel confident that Crump wanted trees. But there is a big difference between trees and TREES.

[Mike_Cirba]

Is there a reason that almost all of the more standard bunkers such as the one short of 7 green, right short on 9, etc., all now have grass faces almost to the bunker floor?

My guess is maintenance expense primarily, with playability a second possibility.

I've never seen PV so "grassed" in my life.   Someone here recently challenged my assessment of the bunkers having been "cleaned up".   Well, that was my last year's assessment.   This year, some are sadly looking positively pedestrian.

That certainly is a good sign for your golf travels then Mike, for Pine Valley to begin to look pedestrian you must be playing some great places.

Between the uniform rows of vegetation wide enough to drive a sand pro through to the planting of love grass every three feet in the front bunker on 7, I know it's probably the height of GCA PC-dom to never criticize PV, but I'm concerned we're watching something very special and formerly unique slip away....the bunkering...not the course.

To the contrary Michael, that actually seems to be a requirement these days.

Ahh, Jim...I only wish I were travelling and seeing more courses these days, but alas..

Perhaps, as you say, they are doing it from a maintenance cost and playability standpoint.  

From an aesthetic standpoint, however, those type of changes eventually impact the uniqueness of the formerly rugged, natural look of bunkers that tied into the sandy waste areas.  That's my point.

btw...GREAT play this week!  

[Mike_Cirba]

The serious answer to your question is the removal of all trees would almost definitely add to the visual dramatics, especially on holes like 6, 9, 13, 14 and 15. Are you suggesting Crump intended no trees on the property?

Jim,

I agree with you, but would contend that the greatest impact of all in restoring the original tree lines would be to #12.

Took a walk through the bunker field in the woods there again yesterday with Jen, and then looked at the 1925 aerials in Shack's book last night and man....there's some cool hole in there waiting to be uncovered there that would make it one of the most heart-stoppingly driveable par fours today from the original tee, as opposed to the one-dimensionality of the hole as it's been permitted to grow over through the years.

[wsmorrison]

I think the trees that segregate holes are fine, that is what was intended according to the historical record.  I am confident that the tree program that is in effect, while not happening overnight, will remove the trees that currently obscure and are found in a number of bunker complexes throughout the course.  If one particularly egregious clutter of trees can be singled out, it would be approximately a 30-yard wide swath of trees on the left of 12.  They hide the green and a fine bunker complex.  Temptation along the line of instinct has been nulified and much of the charm of the hole lost.  This hole, when opened up, will once again bear a strong resemblence to the 1st at Philadelphia Country Club, built approximately 6 years later.

[George Pazin]

Any truth to the rumor that Paul Turner was sneaking around the clubhouse, drawing blue pencil lines on every photo, only to have Tom P utilize his recon skills to remove said lines?

Nice playing, Jim.

One of my best friends played PV last week and I could almost hear him smiling as he described his experience over the phone.

Thanks for sharing, everyone.

[mike_malone]

 A good example of the possibilities was on #6. I came upon  " the old guys". This is a dogleg right with a huge bailout area to the left. Ran describes it well in his course review. One ball went quite a bit left ; one went just left of center: the other two took the heroic route successfully.

   There were 70 yards of difference between the farthest and the closest to the green !

    The farthest hit it into the center of the green; the second farthest hit a wonderful shot over the left bunker to a left center pin. The two closest ended up near the middle of the green as well. So, even though they were much closer with no hazard to carry that left pin got into the heads of the better drivers.

 

       

[CHrisB]

I crossed from #15 through the trees to # 13 (?) and noticed the steepness of that terrain. It gave me a further appreciation for the routing. As I approached the tee I noticed the foursome about to tee off. The first shot went into the trees some 30 yards past me. I found the ball for the player but it was unplayable. I followed him back to the tee since I was heading out.
   After he hit his tee shot and walked on I told him
 "However you are doing it is better than the rest of us".

Hey Mayday,

Guess what--that player was me(!!!). I wish I had known it was you but I had never met you before. I wondered how many GolfClubAtlas folks were out there, but I don't know many by face so I wasn't sure. I appreciated what you said to me and will remember it. Thanks again for finding the ball!

At that point in the tournament, I'll admit that I wasn't very sharp mentally (I actually made a good 6 on the hole). My downfall was making a 10 on my 36th/last qualifying hole (the 9th--from the middle of the fairway) on Friday to drop down two flights, and I had a hard time getting past that. It was a real jolt to the system--I pulled a 6-iron into the trees and learned that at Pine Valley it is often much worse to find a ball than it is to lose it... The kicker was that Mr. Brewer was there on he 10th tee watching me make a 10 (though I didn't know it at the time)--I earned some sympathy from him but deep down I think he loves the fact that things like that can happen Pine Valley (I guess I do too). The course almost paid me back on Sunday, as I almost made a 1 on the 10th hole, with the pin right over the D.A.--that would have been sweet--but other than that it was more pain than gain. But like you said, very lucky just to be there.

PS--I'm glad the weather cleared up so that everyone could enjoy watching the golf. It was an absolute soaker in the morning, with matches delayed and finally canceled as the committee decided to change the format and go stroke play in the afternoon--the only way to complete the tournament that day.

[James Bennett]

I crossed from #15 through the trees to # 13 (?) and noticed the steepness of that terrain. It gave me a further appreciation for the routing. As I approached the tee I noticed the foursome about to tee off. The first shot went into the trees some 30 yards past me. I found the ball for the player but it was unplayable. I followed him back to the tee since I was heading out.
   After he hit his tee shot and walked on I told him
 "However you are doing it is better than the rest of us".

Hey Mayday,

Guess what--that player was me(!!!). I wish I had known it was you but I had never met you before. I wondered how many GolfClubAtlas folks were out there, but I don't know many by face so I wasn't sure. I appreciated what you said to me and will remember it. Thanks again for finding the ball!

Not quite 'the Pizza Man' story, but pretty good I think.  That probably makes at least three of us on GCA that would give Mayday a big thank-you, and a pleased to meet you!  

James B

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