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Jonathan McCord

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San Francisco Golf Club
« on: April 24, 2006, 12:53:58 AM »
   I would love to know more about the history of SFGC.  However, I realize how private and restrictive this beauty is.  As I look at Google Maps, I am amazed at the bunkering.  It looks absolutely stunning. Here are a few of my questions.

1. Is the terrain similar to nearby Olympic?
2. From the look of it, SFGC doesn't seem to have as many tight, tree lined fairways as Olympic, is this accurate?
3. If you were to pick an aspect of the course that makes it stand out, what would you choose?  Ex. Bunkers, Greens etc.
4. Is it the Clubs policy to keep a low profile and not allow pictures, or is there other reasons why pictures are extremely hard to find?

Any information would be great!  I was blown away by how GREAT SFGC looked from Space!!! :o
"Read it, Roll it, Hole it."

Joel_Stewart

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Re:San Francisco Golf Club
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2006, 01:18:44 AM »
Personally its the best bunkered course I have played.  The bunkers are spectacular, pure art.

Its very private and I actually don't know why they continue to operate in such a manner.  They don't want to hold any tournaments which is fine, but they do allow unaccompanied play and its really not that hard to get on.

The course is unique with the history, mystery and privacy.  Numerous par 4's are fantastic with #2,3, 5,6, 10 and the amazing 12th being world class.  The par 5's are just OK and the par 3's are very good with the 7th (the duel hole) being outstanding.

The course is completely different than Olympic especially the routing and the topography.  SFGC generally has all holes running either east or west with the 9th, 10th and 11th in the middle of the property running north south.   Its a fantastic course to study but I prefer Olympic in the long run.

Jonathan McCord

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Francisco Golf Club
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2006, 02:53:37 AM »
   WOW....Live Local is amazing!!!  Check out the birds eye view of SFGC.  Gotta Love all the free time you have when your in college!!!

http://local.live.com/

Zoom in on SFGC, The Birds Eye View will be on option on the left side of the screen.  Check it out!!!
"Read it, Roll it, Hole it."

Jfaspen

Re:San Francisco Golf Club
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2006, 07:07:17 AM »
I posted a similar thread a couple of years ago and someone did find some pictures taken by a person following a college golf match.  I forget which school it was though.

Jeff

Eric Franzen

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Re:San Francisco Golf Club
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2006, 08:26:36 AM »
I posted a similar thread a couple of years ago and someone did find some pictures taken by a person following a college golf match.  I forget which school it was though.

Jeff




http://toddandbarbara.com/ucdgolf/courses/sfclub2003/sfgolfclub.html
« Last Edit: April 24, 2006, 08:28:36 AM by Eric Franzen »

A_Clay_Man

Re:San Francisco Golf Club
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2006, 10:11:11 AM »
It should be interesting to see how the membership receives the changes. Specifically, will they "Get" the short 13th?

Ian Andrew

Re:San Francisco Golf Club
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2006, 10:41:24 AM »
If you were to pick an aspect of the course that makes it stand out, what would you choose?  

While Joel is right the bunkers are great, the aspect I would choose is the scale of the course. The bunkers are part of this. I personally think scale is the hardest aspect of golf design to master, and I believe only a handful of architects ever have mastered this (Tillinghast being one of them). The width of fairways, shear size of bunkering and amount of open space are all as important to San Francisco as the green contours, playing angles and hole strategies.  

Tim Leahy

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Re:San Francisco Golf Club
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2006, 01:16:57 PM »
Does anyone know if the story I heard that a bunker is added for every member that dies is correct? I was supposed to play a college match there in the 80's and got sick and missed the trip and still kick myself.
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Tiger_Bernhardt

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Re:San Francisco Golf Club
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2006, 02:53:15 PM »
Joel, You put if well.

Paul Jones

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Re:San Francisco Golf Club
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2006, 10:33:51 PM »
Here are a couple of pictures..



7th at SFGC



18th at SFGC
« Last Edit: March 11, 2007, 06:17:44 AM by Paul Jones »
Paul Jones
pauljones@live.com

Jonathan McCord

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Re:San Francisco Golf Club
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2007, 10:33:01 PM »
I will be playing SFGC on Monday the 5th.  No pictures will be taken but I will certainly post on my thoughts and opinions on the day.  The course always seems to bring up some very interesting discussions.

Not sure I've been this fired up to play a golf course in my life!
"Read it, Roll it, Hole it."

Mike_Young

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Re:San Francisco Golf Club
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2007, 10:43:51 PM »
Jonothan,
I think I have seen my share of bunkers but I can't say I have ever been able to say that a course's bunkers looked "stunning" from a google view.  Is some of that based on preconceived notions or can you really tell such.  Just wondering.
Mike
PS....they are stunning bunkers but I could not tell that from google..only from seeing them in person...just me
« Last Edit: February 04, 2007, 10:44:56 PM by Mike_Young »
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Tim Gavrich

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Re:San Francisco Golf Club
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2007, 12:45:47 AM »
Reply #4 is not of a college golf match, I don't believe.  I'm nearly positive that the player in that picture has an Avon Old Farms golf bag.  I know that one kid who was on the AOF team last year is a member at Olympic, SFGC, and Cypress...he called (I kid you not) Olympic a "dog track."

I thought I had read that SFGC had a very strict policy that cameras may not be used on the course (unless for professional use as permitted by the Club).  Has this ban been lifted?  Or, is it why there are so few good photos of the course?

Cheers.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2007, 12:46:09 AM by Tim Gavrich »
Senior Writer, GolfPass

John Sabino

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Re:San Francisco Golf Club
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2007, 12:19:28 PM »
Jonathan - you are correct, not as many narrow tree-lined fairways as compared to Olympic and not as many severe sidehill, downhill and uphill lies. One of Tillinghast's best designs in my opinion. Joe
Author: How to Play the World's Most Exclusive Golf Clubs and Golf's Iron Horse - The Astonishing, Record-Breaking Life of Ralph Kennedy

http://www.top100golf.blogspot.com/

Steve Pozaric

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Re:San Francisco Golf Club
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2007, 09:30:14 PM »
Someone else had it right when they said "scale".  In this, it really reminded me of Bethpage.  Big bunkers, wide playing corridors and no cartpaths.

Steve Pozaric

Joel_Stewart

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Re:San Francisco Golf Club
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2007, 11:32:59 PM »
I know that one kid who was on the AOF team last year is a member at Olympic, SFGC, and Cypress...he called (I kid you not) Olympic a "dog track."

There is only 1 person that is a member of all 3 clubs and he is not a kid and would never call Olympic a dog track.  Having played with him on every course I can attest he can slop it around Cypress and SFGC and shoot 80 but when he plays at Olympic he can barely break 90.

After watching the amazing transformation the last 4 years at Olympic due to the tree clearing and top dressing of the fairways I'll be interested to hear if Jonathan thinks SFGC is better conditioned than Olympic.  I always thought it was until the last 2 years when it became apparent that SFGC needs to implement a serious top dressing program themselves.  Furthermore, the new holes at SFGC have no net effect on the course (neither negative or positive) which is slightly disappointing.

Jonathan McCord

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Francisco Golf Club
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2007, 10:47:32 PM »
Well, after a day to think about my experience at SFGC, I have to say, it did live up to all my expectations.  The day was perfect an awesome 65 degrees and a rare offshore wind which made most of the holes play much differently then they normally do with an onshore wind.

To start, the view from the clubhouse and 1st and 10th tees is outstanding.  It certainly reminded me of the view from Crystal Downs as you could see as many as 10 holes from the clubhouse lawn.  The one thing that makes SFGC so great is the scale.  I have NEVER played a course that made you feel so small while walking down the fairway corridors and I have a feeling this is one of the many reasons SFGC leaves an overwhelming impression on its guests.  This is especially true on holes 2 and 8, the valley par 4's.

The bunkering is also the finest I have seen.  Again, the shear scale of it is tremendous.  I am still in awe of the 3rd hole as both the fairway and greenside bunkers are enormous and are absolutely beautiful in appearance.  The capes and bays that are present in each flow perfectly with the undulations in and around the bunkers.  All of the bunkers here are truely works of art.

I was rather surprised at the conditioning of the course.  By no means, and I repeat, by no means was the course in poor or even average condition, but I was expecting a little more consistency and smoothness throughout the greens and fairways.  The course seemed very rustic in appearance as there were these white flowers throughout the rough.  But again, this just added to the feeling of being in a natural meadow or prairie.

The greens have the potential to be some of the most trecherous any where.  Some greens were rather thin as far as the density of the turf, but overall I would not want to see the greens rolling much faster.   :o

#1 - An easy start to your round with a medium length par 5.  This hole gives you a good feel of what to expect from the bunkering to the greens.

#2 - The #1 handicap hole on the course.  This 450 yd. monster is where the course really starts.  A drive into a valley with two fairway bunkers to collect errant tee shots.  From the valley floor you cannot see the putting surface and you face a shot of about 200 - 240 yards drastically uphill depending on your position.  The further right you are in the fairway the flatter your stance, but this make for a more difficult angle to anything on the right side of the green.

#3 - My favorite hole on the course.  This hole favors a fade for the tee shot and a draw to the hole.  The bunkers on this hole have to be some of the most artistic in the world.  The fairway bunker on the right is huge and is perfectly cut into the hillside.  The bunkering really makes this hole one of the best I've played.

#4 - The longest, but not necessarily the toughest par 3 on the course.  From the back tees it plays 224 yds. and it looks about 280.  Plenty of fairway short.

#5 - Another great par 4.  The fairway bunkers aren't really in play but the bunkering around the green is again spectacular.  This, like #3, favors a fade of the tee, and a draw to the green.  Very reminiscent of some designers today.

#6 - The first hole that really favors a draw off the tee.  This will set up an approach to a green that is very fast from front right towards the left side.  I missed my second shot short right and had one of the fastest chips in my life.  SFGC is certainly a course where you must find yourself below the hole to have a legitimate chance at making the next.

#7 - The Duel Hole!  This was the toughest par 3 for our group.  It plays severly down hill and was playing into the wind.  The pin was in severly right to left pitching back right portion of the green, making anything from above the hole just about impossible.  This has to be one of the greatest views in golf.  Looking down the 7th and what waits beyond on the uphill 8th.  Be sure the checkout the plaque by the middle tee, telling the story of the last duel.

#8 - Fairly straight forward par 4 up the hill.  This hole, like #2 is straight up the valley to a green perched above.  The right portion of the green is down right trecherous as it is slightly above the rest.  The view back down the valley towards seven green is another gerat one.

#9 - A man sized par 5.  The finishing hole on the front nine is right at 600 yds if memory serves me correctly.  This hole is very well bunkered you are not guaranteed a view of the green until your third shot.  Once you reach about 250 yards out, you walk into one of the greatest meadows.  It is a feeling like none other.  You can see the entire clubhouse complex, and many other holes you've played and several yet to come.  A truly inspiring feeling.  Again the green is very well bunkered and truly beautiful.

#10 - A good opening par 4 running parallel to the 9th hole.  Try and bare right on your drive to avoid the tall grove of trees to the left.  The green falls off sharply on the left, which would make for some very tricky pin positions.

#11 - The third par 3 with a green the slopes sharply from left to right.  The green is flanked by bunkers on both sides on short.  You have to miss on the low side otherwise bogey or worse.  One par was made in our group, by the ball which was below the hole.

#12 - Another favorite.  A fairly straight forward drive but from 80 yds and in one of the best green settings on the course.  Two huge mounds on either side of the green with bunkers running up their slopes, frame this hole and make it one of the most visually disceptive approaches on the course.  As you walk between these two mounds you see the green is 30 yards beyond them and that more bunkers remain, hidden by the massive mounds.  Today, a hole designed like this may be considered contrived, but here it seems to fit right in, due to the perfectly bunkered surrounds.

#13 - The first of which Doak returned to its former glory.  The shortest par 3 on the course has one of the most disceptive greens from the tee.  It looks tiny but once one walks onto it they find that it is not as small as it looked.  The back right corner as an interesting little rise, which yields interesting pin placements and dilemmas for golfers.  The closly mown back fringe will allow balls to roll over the green into a bunker beyond.

#14 - This is a par 4 that is very disceiving in nature.  Doak gave you all the room in the world to miss right, however, an approach from that angle is made extremely difficult by a bunker on the right and a green that slopes from right to left.  This green is also disceptively fast from front to back as I just about putted my ball of the green towards the back right pin.

#15 - The last of Doak's restoration, this is again a hole that fits right in with the rest as SFGC.  A drive favoring the right side of the fairway will yield the best view of this green.  Although the Tarantula bunker is waiting to gobble up anything hit to far right.

#16 - A shortish par 4 that is made tough by one of the toughest greens on the course.  A fairly straight forward drive leads to an approach that looks fairly easy.  However the front two-thirds of this green run away from the golf making anything but a full shot just about impossible to stop.

#17 - Probably the sharpest dogleg on the course.  A perfect drive must be struck over the righthand trees to ensure a clear shot at the green.  Anything to far right will be gobbled up by trees and your approach will be blocked further by some giant specimens closer to the green.  Anything left will lead to an approach of over 200 yds.  This is on of the tougher holes at SFGC.

#18 - A great finishing hole and a good chance at birdie.  Again, awesome bunkers flank both sides of the fairway and this is the only time OB is remotely in play.  This green slopes severely from right to left and anything right is DEAD, and I mean DEAD.  The feeling you get walking up 18 is again like that of 9.  Entering a great meadow with the great fairway bunker of the 3rd in the distance. The feeling of SFGC is that of none other.  It is truly a special place, and one that will continue to get better with time.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2007, 10:14:34 PM by Jonathan McCord »
"Read it, Roll it, Hole it."

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Francisco Golf Club
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2007, 11:37:30 PM »
Jonathan:

Great write-up; I've been awaiting your thoughts. I compared your notes to a GCA aerial, and it was fun to follow the comments with the aerial and get a sense of terrain and other visual markers that you can't get from on-high. In particular, the strategic design of the 12th can't really be seen in the aerial without a sense of the lay of the land there.

Quick question on the routing and numbering of holes on the back nine -- from your report, compared to the aerial, it looks like one has a long walk to the 13th green from the 12th tee, then a sort of mini-loop of three par 4s -- the straight one with spectacular bunkering, the dog-legging one to the right with no fairway bunkering (perhaps the aerial is old and Doak added some here?) and then a doglegging one slightly left to a heavily and artistically bunkered green. Then it's another long walk past 11th tee and 10th green to get to the tee for 17.

Is that the routing? It seems a bit odd, when the holes would seem to fit better (after 12) with the par 4 that goes back toward the 11th hole, followed by the par 4 played in the opposite direction, then followed by Doak's revamped par 3 and the straight par 4 with the wonderful and beautiful bunkering.

Just curious -- thanks for a wonderful trip around the course!

Jonathan McCord

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Francisco Golf Club
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2007, 09:14:43 PM »
Phil McDade - I'm not sure if you are using Google Maps to follow the SFGC routing, but the Local Live website, by Microsoft, has the restored holes during the construction stages.

If you are using Google, or just the aerial portion of Local Live, you will be seeing the old routing of holes 13-15.  None of the green locations changed, just the routing of the holes.

First, go to this website: http://local.live.com/

Second, Zoom into SFGC

Then, look in the small box in the upper left corner of the map.
CLICK on the icon with the skyscrapers.  

This will give a birds eye view of the course and from the East orientation, you will be able to see the work being done on holes 13-15.

This should clear up the confusion if you were following the old routing of holes.  Thanks for all the great comments, I love reading other posts about spectacular courses written by you guys.  It is truly what this site is all about.
"Read it, Roll it, Hole it."

Jonathan McCord

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Francisco Golf Club
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2007, 07:47:17 PM »
For those of you interested, the newest Links Magazine with Greg Norman on the cover, has a great write-up on SFGC with a bunch of fantastic pictures.  The article details the history of the Club and the renovation recently finished by Doak.  The pictures themselves are worth the $5.00.  Check it out!
"Read it, Roll it, Hole it."

Adam Sherer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Francisco Golf Club
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2007, 10:42:15 PM »
Doak should be joining in the discussion soon, as he is probably the most qualified to speak about this course.  However, (to reference a recent thread) the routing is great: how can you tell what is a good routing, whether or not the holes go in an intersesting sequence.

Everyone talks abou the "Duel" Hole par three, but the preceeding hole, par four uphill #8 is overlooked after the "Duel." Obviously, Tillinghast had an idea of where the golf holes could go and how to get out of "tight" areas.

The putting green / #1 tee / #10 tee is probably the coolest, most integrated, and unique "starting" area around a clubhouse that I have seen. The contours are ridiculous (either Tilly had a great "shaper" back in the early 1900s or he just decided to put two tees and a practice green on terrain  that resembles the Ladies Putting Course at St. Andrews). It isn't THAT crazy, but it certainly has some movement to it. The Superintendent has to receive a lot of credit for the look of the course.
"Spem successus alit"
 (success nourishes hope)
 
         - Ross clan motto

Ray Tennenbaum

Re:San Francisco Golf Club
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2007, 02:18:55 AM »
Someone else had it right when they said "scale".  In this, it really reminded me of Bethpage.  Big bunkers, wide playing corridors and no cartpaths.



Yeah, from this New Yorker's viewpoint it looks more Bethpage-y than Winged Footish.

There's just some kind of confidence in the way Tillinghast laid out bunkers.  Part of it has to do with how superbly the green mounds are shaped.  

I must say, I'm always annoyed when people say, something "defies explanation."  but I'm (almost) at a loss as to why the shape of T's bunkers are so compelling in his designs. The very same shaped-bunker in one of a million other courses will make you gag or yawn -- but in his nearly each one looks like a gem, a part of a whole.

Sean_Tully

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Francisco Golf Club
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2007, 01:35:38 PM »
Finally saw the article and it was nice to see some photos of the golf course.

Beyond that, the historical info was the same repeated history that is not all that correct. I have posted on this before and still see it mentioned in the article and at the Tillie Association site that SFGC was an original design. It was not an original design as he reworked a course that was already in play for two years. He did not get involved until Feb. 1920, he was brought in to rework some of the holes to make the course flow and play better. He came back in 1924 and added a number of bunkers(at least 86 on the frontside when it was finished). He would come in again later and remove a number of the bunkers and the work was done by Bell. It is here, where we see the stylized bunkers that are similar in appearance to the work just completed down the road at Stanford that same year (1930)by Bell.

As to the 1st tee, I have a photo of the tee circa early 1930's that is quite different that what is there now. The picture shows a standard sized tee and a big fence like structure that seperated the tee from the area closer to the clubhouse. Not sure when the changes were made, but the current is better IMHO.

Tully

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:San Francisco Golf Club
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2007, 01:46:17 PM »
Jonathan:

My only correction to your write-up is that the bunker between holes 14 & 15, being a land animal, was long ago named the "Tarantula" and not an "Octopus".  It was nice to be able to restore a hazard with a cool name ... this bunker was grown over by grass and trees in the 1950-2005 routing.

Jonathan McCord

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Francisco Golf Club
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2007, 10:11:30 PM »
I stand corrected.  It is a truly special place, with or without the octopus....I mean, Tarantula bunker.....which is octopus like! ;D :P
« Last Edit: March 05, 2007, 10:11:59 PM by Jonathan McCord »
"Read it, Roll it, Hole it."

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