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Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Lederach GC,by Kelly Blake Moran
« on: March 16, 2006, 04:54:23 PM »
I can't find the prior thread on this so here goes:

I walked the front 9 of this soon to open course this morning with Kelly Blake Moran. The course looks almost ready and for the most part is fast and firm on the fairways. Kelly said that he reduced the bunkers from the original 55 to 32. The bunkering blends in with the land and some can not be seen(no flash facings) from the tee. The land is good rolling farmland. There will be few very flat fairway lies here. The key feature of the course will be the greens. To say that they have character is an understatement. They will be fun to play. Many greens are not surrounded or fronted by bunkers. The ground game will come into play here as will the chipping game from off the greens. Sometimes, from what I've seen, it may be better to be long and chip back. Most here will like the 3rd hole- a par 5 with a split fairway. The long par 3 5th will be another favorite. The green is outstanding.  The 6th- a long par 5- has a huge green fronted by a mini-Alps like mound. The 8th-a mid par4-has a green with a very large false front. The 9th- a short par4- has a center line bunker splitting the severely sloping right to left fairway. The clubhouse looks like a winner. I can't wait to play here(the senior rate is $40 weekdays! and the regular weekend rate will be $75). The course opens April 8. Let's go guys!!!

Here are the yardages:

Back 7045
Middle 6655
Mixed  6105
Foward 5155
Junior 2785

www.lederachgolfclub.com

Thanks again Kelly.

« Last Edit: March 16, 2006, 08:37:10 PM by Steve_ Shaffer »
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Jeff_Mingay

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Lederach GC,by Kelly Blake Moran
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2006, 05:00:50 PM »
Steve (and Kelly),

The routing plan shows what appear like lengthy walks (rides?) between a few holes. Is the course walkable?

Obviously I don't have a sense of the topography, but the plan also makes it look like there might be an advantage to drive into the second fairway from the third tee?

I like your unique artwork, Kelly.
jeffmingay.com

Ted Kramer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Lederach GC,by Kelly Blake Moran
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2006, 05:03:22 PM »
Sounds like a real winner.
I can't wait to get out there . . .

-Ted

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Lederach GC,by Kelly Blake Moran
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2006, 05:08:29 PM »
Jeff

Kelly mentioned the possibility of going right onto the second fairway to play the 3rd hole. The fairway is split by mid sized mounds which look great. It's possible to go way right since the fairways are not divided by trees. I really liked the hidden bunker in front of the green.

Steve
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Jay Flemma

Re:Lederach GC,by Kelly Blake Moran
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2006, 05:44:45 PM »
Yeah, you are right Steve.  I agree completely.;..the greens here are the centerpiece.  Kelly has two severe kidney shaped greens...on one you can use the contours to spin the putt from one sector to the other, on the other green, he ketp the rough to mere collar length so you can putt across the shortcut.

The bunkering is excellent too...fewer bunkers, but more interestingly placed.

I found it an easy walk and yes, you can play your tee ball on three into the sceond fairway for a shortcut.

I'll post some pix on my website and write some more soon.

Hey Steve:  isn't Kelly nicest guy ever?
« Last Edit: March 16, 2006, 05:46:02 PM by Jay Flemma »

Jay Flemma

Re:Lederach GC,by Kelly Blake Moran
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2006, 10:54:36 PM »
Blogger is having some problems, I'm having trouble posting (Kyle, you too?? Ian what about you??)

Anyway, here's some of my review:

Can you tell Kelly Blake Moran is a Texan?  He may not wear a ten gallon hat or leather boots, but boy is he proud of the Lone Star State.  Amarillo Slim in a windshirt.

“And I’ll tell you another thing!” he roars disapprovingly.  “Those Oklahoma teams that won those national championships a few years ago?  I’ll give you one guess where half their roster is from.  Texas, that’s where!  If I had my way, those players that crossed the border should lose their citizenship and never be allowed back!”  Funny thing about it is most of Texas is laughing and saying, “he’s right, you know.”

Happily, Kelly’s sense of humor is spilling over into his work.  I walked his latest project, Lederach just west of Philly and was glad to see some bold and daring features, most notably in greens which featured steep and sweeping contours and fearsome false fronts.  This is good because Kelly can keep the stimps at around 9 – 9.5 and bring all that contour into play.  Instead of your ten foot putt sliding 9 feet straight past the hole, here you’ll have a ten footer with three feet of break and a five foot breaking comebacker.  Tough, but fair.

The course and the greens are hilly, but its not a difficult walk..

Purists will love this place because its Old School.  First, it’s minimalist, they only moved no more than 140,000 cubic yards of earth, but that estimate may be too high.  Second, there are several holes where bunkers are in the line of play directly, or at least are oriented perpendicular to the line of play, so options abound.  My only concern is that I wish on those holes Kelly gave us even a bit more room to either side on those bifurcated fairways.  They are juuuuuuuuuust a bit tight and since Kelly cants his fairways fairly steeply (steepest I’ve seen all year…a good thing ordinarily…flat lies are for pansies), a little more room would help contain the ball for us.  They also will keep the fairway roll a bit more in check.

I liked a couple other things.  Kelly gave us a great false front on 8.  Really huge rolloff…great stuff.  He also put in a blind bunker.  I’m all for an architect having a laugh at our expense and I like this, but this bunker will piss people off because it is totally blind from the fairway.

Now…here’s the COOL thing.  You see the 3rd green AND THE BLIND BUNKER FROM THE FIRST GREEN AND SECOND TEE.  So unless you’re a first timer AND not playing with a local AND not very observant, YOU SAW IT.  Now, the other problem is that it’s so blind some lunkhead dingbat is gonna drive his cart over the hill and right off the cliff into the bunker.  Hence, they will put up some “carts this way signs”, so they will warn you of the bunker’s presence indirectly.

Note…this one example where the “Mike Strantz Rule of cart path signs” does not govern.  That rule states,”when playing a Mike Strantz course, if you have no idea where you are going, hit it between the cart signs.”  Think I’m kidding?  Try it, it’s gold.  However, in the case of 3 at Lederach, you’ll end up in the blind bunker, so hit left of the signs.

If there are any drawbacks, the property itself, while hilly and good terrain for golf, has a lot of houses and water collection areas.  Kelly avoided the houses as well as anybody could, but the water collection areas were in some really tough places, therefore a couple ponds pinch fairways in some pesky places, most notably 3 and off the tee on either 5 or 6. (the par-5).    

Finally, maybe it’s because I saw how amazing both Doak’s and Spann’s skyline greens were and since that’s in my head I think there were a couple places where if Kelly built the green up just a little more, he’d have had a better green backdrop.  

This course doesn’t have the ubiquitous bells and whistles that seem to appeal to the 5 handicappers that rate for GD.  The price is $75, which is better than Tattersall (a prettier course, but which gets repetitive for most of the back nine), but quite more expensive than Gettysburg, (a sportier little layout which is also prettier, but has a three hole stretch on the back that is too dictatorial.)

I don’t think the casual and fan and TV golf crowd will get Lederach as the best features - the steep greens, with their higher green and fairway cuts and quirkier personality traits like the blind bunker – are anathema to them.  Kelly also may have outrun the raters.  But for experienced golfers, it will resonate.  Its like an old warm sweater you pull out of the drawer on a cold winter day.  You wont wear it to church or out to dinner with clients, but boy it sure is comfortable to curl up with your girl and watch football in it.  Same for Lederach.  Great place to take the wife and kids to play, competitively priced and low key.  You won’t make it the centerpiece of your golf vacation, but it’s interesting and combined with Tattersall and Gettysburg, makes a nice little getaway weekend at a respectable price.Kelly had some interesting things to say and executed them well.  He took some risks and tried out some new things.  
« Last Edit: March 17, 2006, 07:03:47 AM by Jay Flemma »

Ted Kramer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Lederach GC,by Kelly Blake Moran
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2006, 07:58:52 AM »
Will tee times be available for Opening Day?

-Ted

Ted Kramer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Lederach GC,by Kelly Blake Moran
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2006, 08:09:25 AM »
Will tee times be available for Opening Day?

-Ted

Maybe I should have looked at the link provided in the first post before asking stupid questions :P . . .

It looks like tee times will be made available on 4/1 for opening day 4/8.
Would any of you guys be interested in joining me for an early foursome if we can secure the tee time?

-Ted
« Last Edit: March 17, 2006, 08:10:17 AM by Ted Kramer »

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Lederach GC,by Kelly Blake Moran
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2006, 08:11:38 AM »
Ted

 I will be in AZ then so I'll have to wait. Let's get a group together sometime when the weather breaks.

Steve
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Ted Kramer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Lederach GC,by Kelly Blake Moran
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2006, 08:14:12 AM »
Ted

 I will be in AZ then so I'll have to wait. Let's get a group together sometime when the weather breaks.

Steve

I'm sure I'll be interested in a return trip too, but I'd really like to get out there ASAP. I really have the itch to play and I'm quite interested in seeing some of Kelly's work.

Anyone for Opening Day?

-Ted

Mike_Cirba

Re:Lederach GC,by Kelly Blake Moran
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2006, 09:55:16 AM »
Ted,

They're having a Saturday opening?  That works for me...I'd be very happy to join you.

Of course, I won't mention Twisted Dune if you don't mention Pine Hill.  ;)

Rob_Waldron

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Lederach GC,by Kelly Blake Moran
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2006, 10:38:08 AM »
My company Billy Casper Golf is managing the course. If you would like to book a tee time go to www.lederachgolfclub.com
You will be able to book one day earlier on March 31 via the website. If you live in Lower Salford Township your resident card will get a $5.00 discount each time you play.

Ted Kramer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Lederach GC,by Kelly Blake Moran
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2006, 11:16:41 AM »
Ted,

They're having a Saturday opening?  That works for me...I'd be very happy to join you.

Of course, I won't mention Twisted Dune if you don't mention Pine Hill.  ;)

Great, I'll see what kind of time I can get for a 2some.
I wont book it until we have a chance to make sure that the time works for both of us . . .
And I'd be really bummed out if we played a round of golf without talking about TD or PH  ;) ;D

-Ted

Mike_Cirba

Re:Lederach GC,by Kelly Blake Moran
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2006, 12:16:47 PM »

Great, I'll see what kind of time I can get for a 2some.
I wont book it until we have a chance to make sure that the time works for both of us . . .
And I'd be really bummed out if we played a round of golf without talking about TD or PH  ;) ;D

-Ted

Ted,

Ok..ok..we can argue about TD and PH .but I have to warn you.   I'm 6'3" and over 200 pounds and if you're bigger than that I'm going to have to bring redanman who makes me look petite.

Seriously, I'm thinking other GCA folks in the area would join us for a nice spring opening.  Of course, that doesn't discount the gathering that Steve proposed but we might like it so much we'd just have to play it twice!

Mike

Ted Kramer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Lederach GC,by Kelly Blake Moran
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2006, 02:29:45 PM »

Great, I'll see what kind of time I can get for a 2some.
I wont book it until we have a chance to make sure that the time works for both of us . . .
And I'd be really bummed out if we played a round of golf without talking about TD or PH  ;) ;D

-Ted

Ted,

Ok..ok..we can argue about TD and PH .but I have to warn you.   I'm 6'3" and over 200 pounds and if you're bigger than that I'm going to have to bring redanman who makes me look petite.

Seriously, I'm thinking other GCA folks in the area would join us for a nice spring opening.  Of course, that doesn't discount the gathering that Steve proposed but we might like it so much we'd just have to play it twice!

Mike

I'm only 5'8" 180, I'll run before I fight ;)
I'd love to have some more GCA guys show some interest a foursome or two would be outstanding!!

-Ted

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