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Brian Gracely

The demise of Wake Forest Golf Club?
« on: February 24, 2006, 11:32:25 AM »
I read a quote in some golf magazine yesterday from a lady that bought a house on Wake Forest Golf Club (NC) and she was pissed that the course was now closing.  I just checked their website and this is not mentioned.  

Scott B - what's the story?  

Is this a case of extended architecture, 700+yd 1st hole, exceeding  the consumers ability to pay?  Is this the beginning of longer courses needing to be reduced in length or closing?  

Scott_Burroughs

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Re:The demise of Wake Forest Golf Club?
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2006, 01:40:15 PM »
Brian/Sean,

I posted it a little over 2 weeks ago, on the day that there was a front page article in the N&O on it (my post w/N&O link is here).

I still haven't received any letter from the club or owner about it, and I've had to call twice now (supposedly 'in the mail' now  ::)).  When the contract is officially signed, the course is to close supposeedly some time in October.

Brian Gracely

Re:The demise of Wake Forest Golf Club?
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2006, 01:43:58 PM »
Scott,

Thanks for the update and sorry to hear about that.  WFGC was a fun track, even with the FLA holes.  I guess I must have missed your previous post because all these OT posts are pushing it off the front page.  

Do we need to have a final mini-GCA outing at WFGC, playing #1 from the parking-lot tees?  

Scott_Burroughs

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Re:The demise of Wake Forest Golf Club?
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2006, 01:57:10 PM »
You might have missed the original post as it wasn't in it's own thread (I didn't think it was worthy).

A mini-GCA outing from the 'parking lot' sounds like fun.  I haven't seen anyone clear the creek (or even attempt it) in two, playing from the tips, since they moved the creek back two years ago.  I cleared the creek once in its original position.

Sean_A

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Re:The demise of Wake Forest Golf Club?
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2006, 01:57:59 PM »
Scott

I am sorry to hear this news.  Have you found another club?  Does this closure effect Wildwood Green?  I seem to recall you mentioning some recipricol playing rights between the clubs.

Ciao

Sean
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Scott_Burroughs

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Re:The demise of Wake Forest Golf Club?
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2006, 02:15:00 PM »
Sean,

From my linked post above:

We'll be given the option of transferring our membership to a sister club, but it is much farther away, and I recall only being able to hit a handful of drivers there, which would get old.  I think it's also more crowded.

And will be more crowded, with a bunch of WFGC's membership joining there.

I'm considering my options among current and new courses.  There's a new semi-private course going in a few miles north of me (opens in the Fall) that I'll check out.  A new private Fazio design going in a few miles to the west of me opens next year, but it's out of my league, price-wise.

Scott_Burroughs

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Re:The demise of Wake Forest Golf Club?
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2006, 03:05:27 PM »
The expected uprising gets rolling, and I just happened to
talk with the guy leading the uprising on Sunday:

http://www.newsobserver.com/167/story/418240.html

I'm still assuming that developers' money will win out in the end, it usually does.  They posted an updated club tournament schedule on the board, eliminating the 3 events scheduled for late Oct and Nov, as the plan for the course closing is mid-Oct some time.

rgkeller

Re:The demise of Wake Forest Golf Club?
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2006, 03:13:06 PM »
Well, these folks could get together and buy the place rather than expect someone to subsidize their golf course/green space.

Scott_Burroughs

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Re:The demise of Wake Forest Golf Club?
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2006, 04:16:55 PM »
Well, these folks could get together and buy the place rather than expect someone to subsidize their golf course/green space.

For some clubs that is a viable option, but our membership is not of the means to do be able to do that.  It is a semi-private club with a max initiation of $3K, of which is usually 'on sale' for below that.  I heard that the property as is is 'worth' $3.5M, but the developer is offering $9M (can you see why the owner is selling?).  

At $3.5M and the 75 members involved, that's $46.7K per, and at $9M, that's $120K per.  I doubt few of them have that kind of money.

At $3.5M and ~250 total members of the club, that's $14K per, assuming all members want in (highly doubtful).  I know that $14K is a lot of money to most of us.  At $9M, that's $36K per.  For $36K, I'd rather join a local private club, but I don't have that either.

$36K is about 16 years' worth of dues for us.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2006, 04:17:46 PM by Scott_Burroughs »

rgkeller

Re:The demise of Wake Forest Golf Club?
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2006, 04:19:23 PM »
Well, maybe a solid voting bloc will convince the politicians to spend the taxpayer's money to save the course and preserve the good deal for the golf playing locals.

Anthony Butler

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Re:The demise of Wake Forest Golf Club?
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2006, 04:29:27 PM »
Well, maybe a solid voting bloc will convince the politicians to spend the taxpayer's money to save the course and preserve the good deal for the golf playing locals.

Has the zoning on the property been changed? Or maybe that's where the first $100,000 of the developers purchase price went... seems like every sweet deal eventually gets bought out these days.
Next!

Scott_Burroughs

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Re:The demise of Wake Forest Golf Club?
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2006, 04:54:24 PM »
Well, maybe a solid voting bloc will convince the politicians to spend the taxpayer's money to save the course and preserve the good deal for the golf playing locals.

I thought of that, too, which would be nice.  If that were to happen, it would be a precedent for this area, because there are no municipal or state-owned courses in this entire metro area of over 1.2M people!  I think we are in the 40's among MSA's in the U.S., and we have no muni's.  A few years ago, the suburb of Cary did a feasibility study (which was quite fascinating for this local) on building the area's first muni, but nothing has ever come of it.

Scott_Burroughs

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Re:The demise of Wake Forest Golf Club?
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2006, 08:38:42 PM »
A positive update on the status of my home club:

http://www.newsobserver.com/167/story/428554.html

Hooray for me.  For now.  It ain't over yet.

Daryl "Turboe" Boe

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Re:The demise of Wake Forest Golf Club?
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2006, 09:18:46 PM »
A positive update on the status of my home club:

http://www.newsobserver.com/167/story/428554.html

Hooray for me.  For now.  It ain't over yet.

Congrats for now Scott.  Does this mean the outing from the tips isnt going to happen?  I hope not.
Instagram: @thequestfor3000

"Time spent playing golf is not deducted from ones lifespan."

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."

Scott_Burroughs

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Re:The demise of Wake Forest Golf Club?
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2006, 12:33:02 AM »
Does this mean the outing from the tips isnt going to happen?  I hope not.

Me, too.  Bring it on, guys.  I want to see someone clear the creek in two from the tips, now.  Scramble might get it done.  Or David Carroll.  ;)

John_Cullum

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Re:The demise of Wake Forest Golf Club?
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2006, 10:14:10 AM »
Scott

What is the genesis of this club? I gather from reading the articles that the course is not tied to a real estate development, but it is surrounded by homes. Seven different neighborhoods in fact. What prompted Mr. Young to build this place?
"We finally beat Medicare. "

Scott_Burroughs

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Re:The demise of Wake Forest Golf Club?
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2006, 10:39:20 AM »
Sarge,

The course was built in 1968, and none of the 7 neighborhoods was around then, though land was set aside to the south of the course for 25 homes, and about 5-6 of those homes border the course....on the first half of #14 on the right and the last 100 yards of #16 on the right.  The original design was one contiguous course in that all holes paralleled at least one other.  There is one point where 4 holes parallel each other going across.

Mr. Young was not the original owner/builder.  The original owner was former ML Baseball player (Yankee pitcher from late 40's-50's) Tommy Byrne, who also later became a Mayor of Wake Forest.  

He sold the club to Joe Young in the early 80's, and Young quickly started 'messing' with it.  He sold land not just next to holes 2-5, but including them, in that all 4 holes were changed or re-designed, of which #3 and #4 are completely new holes and only the 2nd half of #5 is the same.  #2 was just shortened a tad.  Now #2-4 have homes lining both sides, and #5 has homes on the left for the first 100 yards.  Additionally, the walks are much longer than they were from 2-3 and 3-4.

Several of the neighborhoods that partly border the course only have a few homes that actually border the holes.  Other than the subdivision above that borders those 4 holes, the other subdivisions border only small parts of 1-2 holes.  Currently, 9 of the 18 holes still have no homes on them, and only the 3 mentioned above have homes on both sides.  The other 6 holes have homes on only very small parts at a time and on only one side.

The most recent building of residences on the course was 2-3 years ago when Young sold off the field to the right of the 2nd half of #18 for townhomes.  This is the 2nd biggest eyesore on the course, as they can be seen from the highway alongside the course and have now created OB where once a field was.  At least they did not touch the cemetery there and built around it (must have seen Poltergeist!).  They also started to clear the land for more townhomes between #15 green and to the right of #16 for about 150 yards, but I think his trying to sell the property has delayed that.

I guess what I'm trying to describe is that the course is not really a housing course, except for 3 holes and small parts of 6 others.  Even some of those are hard to see.

Did I just write part of the My Home Course Profile I've had on hold for years?   :o
« Last Edit: April 17, 2006, 11:00:10 AM by Scott_Burroughs »

John_Cullum

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Re:The demise of Wake Forest Golf Club?
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2006, 12:03:19 PM »
Scott

That's interesring. It sounds like the club will likely be developed in the forseeable future. I don't see where anyone can stop it. I assume housing is somewhat booming in the area.
"We finally beat Medicare. "

Scott_Burroughs

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Re:The demise of Wake Forest Golf Club?
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2007, 09:25:40 AM »
Well, it looks like it's actually going to happen, and soon.  Like all info about the status of my home course, I read it in our local paper.  These phantom 'letters' to the members referred to in the articles have never been sent to me, only the first one about 3 years ago.

Anyways, it looks as if my home club of the past 12 years is actually closing next month (19 Nov) for good (the article says members are still fighting, but developers almost always win), for development into high-end housing.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/wake/wake_forest/story/725354.html

If anyone wants one last shot at our 711-yard par 5 opener, give me a shout and I'll see if I can get out with you.

Brock Peyer

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Re:The demise of Wake Forest Golf Club?
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2007, 09:21:46 AM »
What a shame, I have played WFGC several times and hate to see it go.  The opener is one of the hardest opening pars I know....you hit two shots and still have a ton into the green.

Scott_Burroughs

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Re:The demise of Wake Forest Golf Club?
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2007, 11:10:04 PM »
Today was the last day for my home club of 12 years.  Uncharacteristically, the place was jam-packed with members, former members, others who had played it before, and even some who had never played the course before.  I got one last round in, finishing at dark, one of the last to ever play it.  One last time on monstrous #1 from the way backs (hadn't been putting them all the way back for some time).  The pro shop was deserted, except a couple of display shoes and the rocking chairs from the outside seating area, which will be auctioned off with other parts of the course (flags, pictures, etc.) to members and such tomorrow.  

The impending deadline of the course closing finally got me to get my My Home Course submission together, after taking the pictures over 3 years go, writing it on paper last year, and then finally typing it in during the last week and submitting it earlier today.  Ran says it will be posted at a later time, due to other stuff in front of me.  Nothing like a MHC for an NLE.

RIP, WFGC.

A.G._Crockett

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Re:The demise of Wake Forest Golf Club?
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2007, 08:37:13 AM »
Very sorry to see it go; I played it with Tommy Byrne many, many years ago and it was a wonderful day.  Hard to see this as progress, especially in the current housing market.

Scott, where will you play your golf now?
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Scott_Burroughs

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Re:The demise of Wake Forest Golf Club?
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2007, 02:08:08 PM »
Very sorry to see it go; I played it with Tommy Byrne many, many years ago and it was a wonderful day.  Hard to see this as progress, especially in the current housing market.

I mention Tommy Byrne's role in the club in my MHC piece.  Played with a guy yesterday who'd been a member since the beginning (1968) and knows him well.

Quote
Scott, where will you play your golf now?

Members were given an offer by the club to join sister-managed course Wildwood Green for no initiation, but it's a bit on the far side for a married guy w/2 kids (close to 20 minutes), it was already crowded before any influx of former WFGC members, and the course is a bit short for my full-time tastes.  Wouldn't be able to hit driver 'enough'.  

A new semi-private (development) club opening 10 minutes from my house and WFGC is called Olde Liberty, and is due to open in February.  They were supposed to open this fall, but couldn't grow any grass in the drought (they will sod the course in early Jan).  They struck a deal with WFGC members so we could join there for 75% off the $6K non-resident initiation fee.  I and 60+ other members took the offer.  The downside is that being a housing course (only a tiny bit of the housing has been built so far), it's isn't as walker-friendly as I'd prefer (some long walks), and almost all of the holes are 'singular', with no parallel holes.  Hooked or blocked drives don't land on a parallel hole....just OB.  Not to mention that I just like 'core' courses, where you can see a lot of the course from most spots.

Brock Peyer

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Re:The demise of Wake Forest Golf Club?
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2007, 05:49:04 PM »
Scott, I am sorry to see this day come.  As I had mentioned, I had played it several times when I lived in Raleigh and then visiting our friends that still live there.  I can't say that I loved the course but it was a lot of fun.  That first hole was like waking up first thing in the morning to a kick in the crotch.  I hope that your new course works out for you.

Scott_Burroughs

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Re:The demise of Wake Forest Golf Club?
« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2007, 02:06:53 PM »
Very sorry to see it go; I played it with Tommy Byrne many, many years ago and it was a wonderful day.  Hard to see this as progress, especially in the current housing market.

I mention Tommy Byrne's role in the club in my MHC piece.  Played with a guy yesterday who'd been a member since the beginning (1968) and knows him well.

 :'( As a sad note about Tommy Byrne (the founder of the club), he passed away 5 days ago.  Five weeks after his 'baby' closed forever.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/844551.html

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