[Adam_F_Collins]

We hear a lot about Doak, Nicklaus, Dye, Fazio, C&C and Jones.

Who are the most natable non-American Golf Course Architects and what have they done? How does their work compare to some of the American work?

[Chris Kane]

Mike Clayton in Australia and New Zealand- designed Ranfurlie, and co-designed Barnbougle Dunes and St Andrews Beach with Tom Doak.  Currently working on a new course for Royal Queensland, and a course in outer western Sydney.

Has completed renovation work at Peninsula North, Victoria (restoring Mackenzie's bunkers from a 1930's aerial), Kingston Heath, Portsea, Spring Valley and Port Fairy, among others.  Current projects include Metropolitan, Peninsula South, RACV Healesville, The Grange and Royal Wellington.

I'm biased because he's a friend, but I think Mike is the Alex Russell of the new millenium - he has done some terrific work on his own and built two wonderful courses alongside Doak.  This is despite having a policy of "if its growing, cut it down" (as one spectator yelled out during the Portsea pro-am on Monday!) - not surprising when he's sponsored by Stihl chainsaws!  

[Tommy_Naccarato]

I saw this thread, and the first thing I was going to suggest, even though I haven't seen his work in person, just in images--Mike Clayton. The same goes for Tony Ristola, whose work also looks outstanding in photos, although I haven't been fortunate to see any of it in person.

[Matt_Sullivan]

I like generally like Bob Harrison's courses. He does Greg Norman's stuff in Asia and Australia: National Moonah, Nirwana Bali, Ellerston. (And I think he did TPC @ Sugarloaf in the States, where they play the Bell-South -- that's got one of the best finishing holes on Tour I think)

[Andrew Summerell]

I would have to agree with Chris & say Mike Clayton. Mike's work is excellent, & more & more people in Australia are realising that fact.

[ForkaB]

Surely David Maclay Kidd has to be at or near to the top of this totem pole.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Who is currently delivering silk purses out of sow's ears?  The remark was made by Bernard Dawin of MacKenzie that 'some of his holes on flat, dull and featureless land come as near to making a silk purse out of a sow's ear as is humanly possible.'  Does anyone achieve that, or do the current crop of imaginative architects need fecund topography?

[Yannick Pilon]

This is a legitimate question that is not meant to be a stab at David Macklay Kidd...  But what has he done that is significant other than Bandon Dunes?

I know he is working in St Andrews, but appart from Bandon, what else is there?

[ForkaB]

This is a legitimate question that is not meant to be a stab at David Macklay Kidd...  But what has he done that is significant other than Bandon Dunes?

I know he is working in St Andrews, but appart from Bandon, what else is there?

Nanea (Charles Schwab's private course in Hawaii) and Queenwood in England.  Both are supposed to be very good.

[Bob_Huntley]

Yannick,

If he did nothing other than Bandon... he would still be in my pantheon.

As Rich pointed out Nanea ain't bad.

Bob

[Brent Hutto]

Who is currently delivering silk purses out of sow's ears?  The remark was made by Bernard Dawin of MacKenzie that 'some of his holes on flat, dull and featureless land come as near to making a silk purse out of a sow's ear as is humanly possible.'  Does anyone achieve that, or do the current crop of imaginative architects need fecund topography?

Tom Fazio?

[Where's the emoticon for a golfer ducking and covering? Fore!]

[BCrosby]

Brent -

Consider yourself on probation. Any more cracks like that and its Siberia for you. We have re-education camps there. Sheesh.

Mark -

By chance, is Darwin talking about Mack's work on the Portland course at Troon in your quote?

To what extent is Portland like Princes in that neither ever recovered from RAF uses during WWII?

Bob

[Ryan Crago]

Yannick/Rich,

I was lucky enough to walk Queenwood this past summer, and from all accounts it lives up to the hype.  It could best be summarized as a modernist approach to heathland design, with some very interesting green complexes.  the course construction was severely hampered by an extremely wet season, and tight timeline - but i imagine it has met expectations of members.

Is it at the same level of design as bandon??  hard to say without playing it (repeatedly), but i guarantee there some interesting subtleties...

the clubhouse, on the other hand....  

rc.

[tonyt]

My two have been taken, in Bob Harrison and Mike Clayton. Harrison seems to be a common denominator in Norman's best courses, and is notably absent from those of his that get the most criticism. The work at National Moonah and Ellerston were likely the first and only two courses until Barnbougle came along to break into Australia's top 10 since WWII.

Clayton did Ranfurlie on a gently sloping but none too amazing site and came up with an excellent interpretation of classic design features and a naturally integrated look with rugged edges. At Peninsula North, he took the lesser course by some margin (but situated on the better land) at a good sandbelt 36 hole club and transformed it into by far the better of the two. All this was achived without turning the place upside down. The character of the place is in sync even better than before and the collection of par 3s is now of awesome quality, and along with his reno work at Victoria, it shows that when it comes to the sandbelt's qualities since establishment of the top clubs and their nuances, he understands them better than perhaps any other architect in this country. He subsequently now has the South under the knife.

Obviously, his work with Doak at Barnbougle Dunes and St Andrews Beach are highlights on his CV, but at least with those of his own I've mentioned above, there can be no mistaking prior to discussion with Doak/Clayton as to the level of credit deserved.

From the UK, who is tops? Is Steele the main man or at least a contender?

[Sean Walsh]

I haven't seen enough of his work to give a nomination but I would like to put David Graham's work up for discussion.  

What has he done other than Growling Frog and Sutton Bay?  

I think the frog is a good course on what I believe would have been a difficult piece of land.  Rocks, wetlands and a few picly environmental concerns.  Sutton Bay to my knowledge also has pretty good wraps.

[Matt_Sullivan]

Sean, I think you mean Graham Marsh, who is responsible for Sutton Bay and Growling Frog.

I'm a member at Huatang here in Beijing, which is a Marsh design. It's a good course, particularly by local standards -- it would be in the top 2 here in Beijing, along with Pine Valley. It's the only Marsh course I've played, though

[Mark_Rowlinson]

I used the Darwin quote to spark interest in the bulk of the work being done by designers in Europe.  Many projects now are having to be executed on absolutely nondescript land - wherever they can get planning permission.  There are probably financial backers willing to put in millions of Euros as long as their course gets rave reviews and attracts the right sort of membership.

I have just such a case in mind.  I was approached only the other day by a potential course developer in continental Europe who wanted to know who I might suggest as an architect for his project which is, it seems, for 54 holes on flat agricultural land at the high end of the market.  I have no clue about who to suggest or who might be interested, but if any of you is, I'll hapily put you in touch with each other.  E-mail me - there is no obligation on anybody's part.

[Sean Walsh]

Matt,

You are right.  Not sure what I was thinking.  I'll go and sit in the dunce's corner.

[JNC Lyon]

DONALD STEEL

[Robert Thompson]

I'll stand up and say Canada's Doug Carrick has done a nice job at Bigwin Island, Osprey Valley and Eagles Nest. Interestingly, Canada's top architects (Carrick, Thomas McBroom, and Graham Cooke) are all working outside of Canada more these days. McBroom has projects in Hilton Head and Florida, while Carrick is working in Scotland, Ireland and St. Kitts.
Oh, and I think Rod Whitman's talent is boundless, though I've only experienced one of his courses.

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