[TEPaul]

Over on the "Favorite 1st hole" thread Punchbowl on about page 3 let on that the 1st green at NGLA has been altered. About three people responded that someone ought to start a separate thread on that because it would get a lot of comment but for some reason nobody started that thread so I am.

[Tom_Doak]

Obviously they are feeling the pressure to keep up with others in the neighborhood.  

Really, there is nothing to say, since they have done the work.  I would love to know whose idea it was to make the change.

[TEPaul]

Maybe it was two to two and a half years ago I was out on the first green in my pajamas.

That's right, you heard it correctly.

Anyway I was out on the first green in my pajamas as the sun was coming up with Bill Sallinetti and Matt Burrows. They told me I could help them with pin positions and do some stimping.

While we were on the 1st green Matt told me they were going to alter the back of the green. I just about dropped dead I was so stunned. He said Yep it was going to get altered but don't tell anyone. Well, it doesn't matter anymore since it got altered.

He said they were just really low on pin positions on the green and they had to do it. I just loved that bowl in the back left of that green and I guess that may be gone now---God-damnit.

But they were right that green sure was low on pinnable area. I don't think you could put a pin on the back right and that morning they actually put the pin in the mid-left bowl where they said they'd never put it before (that'd be Bill and Matt). That was pretty interesting when the tourhament rounds started that day.

Matt also very much surprised me when he said the entire back of the 1st green was originally built by Karl Olsen. Originally what's the back of the green now apparently was the old 2nd tee or a part of it.

From some of the old photos I've seen I get the feeling that green was altered before anyway. I have a sneaking suspicion it may've been Maxwell. He did something at NGLA but nobody's admitting to anything any more. I asked George about it and I don't think he even knows.

[TEPaul]

"I would love to know whose idea it was to make the change."

TomD:

The decision was apparently a done deal over two years ago. As to whose idea it was--probably all the guys who make the decisions there---you know who they are---there's just a few of them.

The extent of Karl Olsen's green designing career may've only been about 1/3 of a green but I can tell you right now it was one of the most awesome 1/3 of a green in the world!  

[Mike_Sweeney]

Tom,

When was the work started and completed?

[Jay Flemma]

I wanna know what you were doing out there in the PJs.  Were you emulating Mackenzie at Pasa and chipping before breakfast?

[TEPaul]

"I wanna know what you were doing out there in the PJs.  Were you emulating Mackenzie at Pasa and chipping before breakfast?"

No, No, I already told you what I was doing. I was out there showing those boys some pin positions and how to do a stimpmeter reading. The first thing you do is get a metal saw and cut about 9" off the front of the stimpmeter.

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul,

I won't comment until I see the green, but I always thought that the back left bowl was the most difficult location to get to.

I know you've had success with that approach, but, it's got to be one of the most difficult in all of golf despite the fact that the shot can be from only 5 to 100 yards.

[TEPaul]

"TEPaul,
I won't comment until I see the green, but I always thought that the back left bowl was the most difficult location to get to......... it's got to be one of the most difficult in all of golf despite the fact that the shot can be from only 5 to 100 yards."

Oh, Horsefeathers Patrick! You got that ridge that runs right along the middle and right past the right side of that back left bowl. That ridge has to be at least a foot and a half wide and all you have to do is hit the left quarter of it at about 5:15 on the bowl. What do you want? It's a piece of cake.

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul,

I still don't understand the thinking behind the changes.
And, I'm still not clear on the extent and nature of the changes.

Granted it was a small green, that played 10 times smaller, with limited hole locations, but, so what.  That was a major component in the inherent challenge and sport of the hole, a driveable par 4.

Was the change a concession to the element of fairness ?

[TEPaul]

Granted it was a small green, that played 10 times smaller, with limited hole locations, but, so what?  That was a major component in the inherent challenge and sport of the hole, a driveable par 4.

Was the change a concession to the element of fairness?"

NO, Patrick----do I have to teach you everything??

The green was very low on pin placements and that tends to put some unusually heavy stress on the green compared to the others. Can't you figure anything out correctly on your own---do I have to be there to explain everything to you? I don't have enough time to do that anymore.  

[wsmorrison]

How many rounds per year do you think they do at NGLA?  Do they have a lot of outings?  Was an architect involved?

[TEPaul]

"Do they have a lot of outings?"

That's an understatement.

How many rounds? Pat, do you remember those trains in Nebraska when we were trying to cross the tracks? They just kept coming and coming and coming and....

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul,

Do you think the 1st green at NGLA gets as much play as the 7th green at Pebble Beach ?

Do you think the 1st green at NGLA gets the same exposure to the elements that the 7th at PB gets ?

I don't know the number of rounds played per year, but, due to the seasonal nature of the club's operation, and mostly non-resident membership, I would guess that it's less than most clubs on western LI.

I'd have to question any changes to that green, and # 16 as well.  I"m anxious to see the green.  Have you seen it since the changes ?

[Gene Greco]

The extent of Karl Olsen's green designing career may've only been about 1/3 of a green but I can tell you right now it was one of the most awesome 1/3 of a green in the world!  

He was also responsible for building the right back tier on the 11th green.

[Patrick_Mucci]

The extent of Karl Olsen's green designing career may've only been about 1/3 of a green but I can tell you right now it was one of the most awesome 1/3 of a green in the world!  

He was also responsible for building the right back tier on the 11th green.

Gene,

That's entirely untrue.

The structure of that upper tier, the entire foot pad, pre-existed Karl's arrival on the scene at NGLA.

The rear tier had been unmaintained as putting surface until someone suggested it be restored to board members years ago.[/color]

[TEPaul]

"TEPaul,
Do you think the 1st green at NGLA gets as much play as the 7th green at Pebble Beach?"

Patrick:

No I don't. But PB's #7, even if it is small, has a whole lot more pinnable space on it than NGLA's #1.

"Do you think the 1st green at NGLA gets the same exposure to the elements that the 7th at PB gets?"

No, I don't. But fog is good for grass. You didn't know that either, did you?

[TEPaul]

Patrick:

I am really impressed. You had the ideal opportunity to really blow your own horn laid right in your lap---and you didn't do it. I'm impressed!

[Peter Galea]

 But PB's #7, even if it is small, has a whole lot more pinnable space on it than NGLA's #1.

Number 7 at PBGL was rebuilt a number of years ago, if memory serves I'd guess early 90's. Pinnable area had decreased to almost nothing due to bunker edge buildup from years of play. Bunker faces were leveled, and the concave nature of the putting surface flattened. Prior to the work I paced the green and I think I remember 21 deep and 13 wide. The only green I have seen that's smaller is the 11th at Burlingame Country Club.

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul,

Thanks.

With respect to the size of the green, you must view it in the context of the ratio of rounds played to pinnable area.

While # 7 may be larger, the number of rounds is vastly higher.

Pete & TEPaul,

The 15th green at Pine Tree is probably smaller than both of them with perhaps a few more sq ft of pinnable locations.

I never noticed traffic problems at # 1 at NGLA, but, then again, I'm not a regular.
Perhaps the incentive was heightened when they had some problems with the greens two to three years ago.

I anxiously await seeing it.

P.S.  Fog may be good for grass, but salt water isn't.

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