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Mike Hendren

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Name The Architect (Part IV of IV)
« on: November 01, 2005, 09:26:06 AM »
Bendelow?



Ross?



Raynor?



Oh, my!



This green is approached from the lower right corner of the photograph.  

Mike
« Last Edit: November 01, 2005, 09:26:54 AM by Bogey_Hendren »
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

RJ_Daley

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Re:Name The Architect (Part IV of IV)
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2005, 09:43:54 AM »
Is this something Russell Talley was working on remodelling in England?
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Ian Andrew

Re:Name The Architect (Part IV of IV)
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2005, 10:11:20 AM »
Bogey,

Well I'll guess and prove I'm a horse's ass  ;D when it comes to this but here it goes:

My reasons:

1. The grassed down pot style bunkers - majority of his later work
2. The engineered swale that runs into and becomes part of the fairway - found on his plans and on every course I work with
3. The flanking bunkers with a wide open front - a majority of his work uses this technique
4. the fescued mound in front - used a lot at Stafford and Lookout in particular, again on the drawings of many courses
5. The all or nothing approach completely surrounded by bunkers is a dead copy of Orchard Park's 4th
6. and the carry line well short of a green with no bunkers has been done at Scranton among others (although there is usually a break in the line or the fairway goes around the outside.
7. the last photo has a level run in with sharp fall offs around the back, again the bunkers flank

I think it has to be Walter Travis (now I cringe waiting for the real answer).  ;D
« Last Edit: November 01, 2005, 10:13:56 AM by Ian Andrew »

TEPaul

Re:Name The Architect (Part IV of IV)
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2005, 07:19:09 PM »
What in the hell is that "THING" about ten yards short of the green in the last photo? Whatever it is I think every course in the future should have one, and every existing course should have one retrofitted into it no matter what Patrick Mucci says about it.

ForkaB

Re:Name The Architect (Part IV of IV)
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2005, 11:55:20 PM »
What in the hell is that "THING" about ten yards short of the green in the last photo? Whatever it is I think every course in the future should have one, and every existing course should have one retrofitted into it no matter what Patrick Mucci says about it.

Tom

That's a "Norwegian Blue" bunker.

Mike Hendren

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Re:Name The Architect (Part IV of IV)
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2005, 09:19:18 AM »
As correctly guessed earlier,  these photographs are of Memphis CC, a design credited to Donald Ross around 1910 - very early in his career.  A previous course indeed existed on the site and is commonly credited to Tom Bendelow.  

The photographs were recently discovered and are assumed to have been taken around 1940.

I am particularly intrigued by the sharp lines and primitive appearance of the first photograph, the 2nd green.  Like many other greens there, this one has been rounded off, but the original pad is still there, plain as day.  Perhaps a Bendelow leftover, or a different look for Ross very early in his career?

The second photograph is of the 17th green and one can't help but wonder, as pointed out, if Ross didn't go overboard on the drainage - though the delta soil is pretty good in the area.  Alternatively, maybe he needed a source of dirt and if so, this is nice handiwork.  I believe the apparent ridge is actually the front of the green.  This is (was) a rather lengthy uphill two shot hole, with the three bunkers a real hazard to be carried.  

The third photograph is of the 9th green and in fact that is the 18th green to the left.  Fore! These are two of the three greens that have been totally rebuilt - I have similar pictures of all 18 greens - likely for safety reasons.  I like the low profile trench type bunkers which are reminiscent of Ross' bunkering at the Hill Course at French Lick Springs, notably at the par five 15th.  I find the front bunker interesting as well.  

One wonders if the small chocolate drop in the fourth photograph is original, or perhaps the handiwork of the greens chairman - perhaps to block a run-up approach from a nemisis.  There are a few others in the set of photographs.  This is a treacherous par three that plays in the 175 range.  

Perhaps I'll post an epilogue tomorrow with some interesting quotes from the long-time superintendent Rod Lingle from The History of Golf in Tennessee.

I greatly appreciate the comments.  This was not an exercise in stumping the cognoscenti, but rather an opportunity for me to learn.  Thanks.

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Sébastien Dhaussy

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Re:Name The Architect (Part IV of IV)
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2005, 01:43:05 PM »
Mike,

Thanks for this trivia. It's a great way to learn indeed.
I've appreciate, even if my architectural knowledge is still so poor !

Thanks
"It's for everyone to choose his own path to glory - or perdition" Ben CRENSHAW

Joe Hancock

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Re:Name The Architect (Part IV of IV)
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2005, 04:12:42 PM »
That's a "Norwegian Blue" bunker.

"Oh yea...the Norwegian Blue...beautiful plummage....."

Nice!

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

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