[mike_malone]

 Kelly Blake Moran did.


     I felt there were space constraints on the front , but when he had more space on the back he really began to shine.

   The terrain is very hilly.  I can see why width is an aid on hilly courses. It enables one to avoid going straight up and down hills on every hole.

      The bunkering has a distinctive shape to it.There is some centerline bunkering which seemed to act as vacuum cleaners for my teeshots.

   The greens had a uniqueness to them   with many and varied internal contouring. Occasionally my playing partners wondered what Kelly was smoking!

      I want to focus on just two holes.

   #14
       Previous posts have spoken of their admiration for this par 3. It is 200+ uphill. There is a fairway on the left of the green that slopes away to the left and a deep bunker that runs along the right side. But the real charm is the green. It widens as you go from front to back; it slopes from front to back as well.

   #15

        I thought this was a world class par 5. There is a ridge of some 10-15 feet  in height that sits right in the center of the hole for the tee shot in a perpendicular fashion. It probably runs for 30 yards. There is an upper fairway left and a lower fairway to the right. This provides  for an interesting teeshot.

    But, the second shot which tumbles down and to the right encounters six bunker complexes spread from left to center to right and  to the green. We have talked on this site about the difficulty in designing a good second shot on a par 5. It has been done here. The key is the wide landing area for the second shot. This wide area that is pockmarked with bunkering is a rare sight for me.

  As for the routing , #12 was a par 3 and #13 a  par 5. So, this stretch was exhilarating.


   I have seen how Gil Hanse has worked with some tough terrain. I guess guys like he and Kelly love a challenge.


   

[John Foley]

Mike,

I found #15 to be one of the most visually intimidating holes I've ever played. When we played it I felt like I had no idea how far the distances would play as the width & height you played from distorted your perception. Just getting from the tee to the green on that hole was exhilerating. That hole seems like it must take all day to mow given the length, width & slope.

Also I found #10 & # 17 to be fantastic green sites. Fully manufactured, but absolutley wonderful.

What about the center bunker complex short of the par 5 5th  & the offset green on the long par 3 3rd?

[Steve Lapper]

Kelly smokes the Really good stuff!!!

Nobody in their "right" mind ahould have been charged with building a golf course on that terrain... but it turned out brilliantly.

Kelly's next project is in South Hades and shortly after that he'll be working in the Himalayas...bring your crampons!

[Thomas_Brown]

No to the first question.

Some of the holes were very good around the green - #2, #3, #14, #15.  Agreed that you picked 2 of the better holes out there.

I found several of the holes to optionless - hit it somewhere between 180 - 240 off the tee, then your approach.

The sand is flour - 2 or 3 few shots of mine plugged.

#7 - #13 I found to be a bummer, not exhilarating.
I have heard this course does polarize.

[mike_malone]

 My tee shot required a layup short of the bunkers on #5 so I could not appreciate them as well as you did.

 We all took several putts on #10  just for fun. That back left section was a blast.

  The next time I play there I will hit less club off the elevated tees .

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Robert Trent Jones jr built a very good course there as well.

[mike_malone]

 Tiger,

   I guess you mean there is more than one Morgan Hill. This one is in Easton PA.

[mike_malone]

 Thomas,

  I found interesting choices on #2 with either right or left of the center bunker. #10 had the two fairways with one having the open view but over water and the other a blind shot to a severely sloped green. #11 carry the bunkers or go left.

  The hole where I felt the choices were limited was the short #8. I tried to carry the bunker with my drive just for fun. But, I really don't see any reason to do it again.

[THuckaby2]

Robert Trent Jones jr built a very good course there as well.

The title got me thinking of Morgan Hill, CA as well.  That one is a bit south of San Jose.  The course in question is Cordevalle.  It's technically in San Martin, but it's close enough to our Morgan Hill.  And it is a damn good course.

Stupid totally off-topic side note:  Morgan Hill, CA is also where my daughter has a very big soccer match tomorrow.

Now back to Kelly's design.  I gather you all like the course.  That is tough to pull off on a mountainous site.  We have a new one near us on a mountainous site - The Ranch - and let's just say no one's applauding Casey O'Callaghan for that one - the best we can do is commiserate.

 

[Mike_Sweeney]

I have played three of Kelly's courses so far:

Morgan Hill - Mountainous severe terrain of Pennsylvania

Laurel Links - flat potato fields of Long Island's North Fork near Peconic Bay

Hawk Pointe - rolling farmland of Western Jersey.

Hawk Pointe is easily my favorite so far, however I think Kelly actually did a better job, especially the greens, at Morgan Hill. I am told that that Laurel Links has really grown in nicely since I was there, so hopefully I will get back there soon.

[Matt_Ward]

Geoffrey:

You really believe Laurel Links is what a housing layout should be? You're joking -- right? I mean the houses are clustered in the middle of the property! For a moment when I played the course I know now how Custard felt when surrounded at Little Big Horn.

Frankly, Laurel Links is more about the greens than anything else -- some of which are borderline over-the-top -- I believe the split level green at the 5th(?) would qualify for such a position. At Morgan Hill you get a full integration of what driving the ball is about and how to position your shots in the proper location for the approaches -- many of which can be quite vexing because of the way the greens are shaped. The uphill dog-leg par-5 5th is one of the finest holes you can play and carries forward the same design principle you see with Tillie's chair reaction cross bunker at Bethpage Black's 4th hole.

Geoff -- I do agree with you on the dropshot holes but less so with #17. Here's why. I did not care for the 12th because it is merely a filler hole to take you from one portion of the property to the other. Kelly already provided semi-drop-shot par-3's in the round with the 3rd and 7th. The 12th is merely redundant and a major drop in overall hole quality.

On the 17th I can see your point but frankly I see the tee shot dynamics as being quite good. The fairway slants in from the left and eventually ends as you face a major dropoff into a semi-canyon that occupies the far left side. The green site is well done with its serpentine dimension -- the green is also nicely protected by the ridge that you need to cross when the pin is put in the rear because it's a very daunting shot to push that hard on your approach when going over can be certain disaster. Can the hole be vexing for average golfer. Sure. But that can apply to any number of holes on this type of site.

If there's one major glitch for me at Morgan Hill -- it's the final hole. The golfer has sampled a fine meal and all one needs is a great cup of coffee to seal the deal -- the 18th at Morgan Hill is Dunkin Donut's variety coffee. Adequate -- but far from rich in taste.

Overall, Morgan Hill is a triumph in overcoming some demanding terrain issues. For the purists on this site who insist on "walking only" the course will not be their favored listings for sure.

[Thomas_Brown]

I agree w/ Childs' summary of stupid golf.
I was there starting on the 7th or 8th hole.

The genre of this course is typical of Southern California, Orange County or San Diego housing developments built in the hills.  Moorpark is the closest one I've seen to working, but it's a better site than Morgan Hill.

Matt Ward - #17 how can you like the tee shot?
I hit a driver and then had 75 yards left(albeit from the left canyon rough you mentioned).  Next time, it would be a 2 iron, 9 iron.  The tee shot is filler.  I don't see very steep downhill drives on what ends up being a relatively short par 4 as compelling.  I  really did think the card had some of the yardages mislabeled - maybe the ski slope effect took over.

Ironically, I didn't have a problem w/ the 18th hole.

#10 w/ the 2 fairways - honestly, I thought both choices - left or right were unappealing.  To me, the difference between 140 and 110 aren't much of a choice considering the rough ending the left fairway so abruptly.

#2 centerline bunker was nice and the green as well.
Many of the green sites were interesting to me, but the route to get there was often mind numbing.

It's a fine golf course for weekend golfers, but it's not on my short list to revisit.

It's the only Moran course I've played so far.

[Thomas_Brown]

Having said all of this, it will be hard to believe that Doak's upcoming Stone Eagle may break the mold of this type of course.

[Dan Herrmann]

Actually, I really liked the green complex on 18 - neatly shaped green that fits into the land.

I think I gotta get back and give it another shot.

[Matt_Ward]

Geoff:

I'll be glad to debate the merits of any the over-the-top greens at both courses. Please knock yourself out and illuminate for me the ones at Morgan Hill that qualify. I may more than prepared to do likewise with Laurel Links.

Let's also talk about the 11th hole. Please tell me -- in specifics -- how the hole fails? Here Moran used the land in a very clear and demanding way. You have to slide your tee shot with a fade (right-handers) but not too much are you face the OB area where the homes are located. If you hit it too far left you can run out of fairway room. Nothing wrong with that in my mind. Ditto the neat putting surface that is contoured to repel balls if played incorrectly.

Geoff -- word to the wise -- if you uncomfortable with such a hole maybe you need to work on your driving skills instead of overdosing on the greens.

Tom:

By all means play your 2 iron and 9-iron -- so what? Does that mean the hole is inferior because of your short selection? I had a drive that finished in the neck and no more than the same amount of distance you mentioned -- but the risk is clearly there for those who opt for such a play. Let me float a word to you that you may not be familiar with -- it's called execution. If the player executes you get the reward. Those who lay back will have a longer play and the green is indeed well contoured without being excessive.

When you say Moorpark is a better site than Morgan Hill -- I agree -- but you fail to give high marks for Moran in being able to overcome the demands of what a site like Morgan Hill is about.

Tom -- did you bother to study the 1st hole and the manner by which long players are tested with the second shot to the green? What about the nature of the downhill par-3 3rd with its unique green that divides the surface into two distinct areas? What about the downhill sweeping par-4 4th or the uphill-dog-leg-right chain reaction bunker on the par-5 5th?

On the back side you have the well done uphill par-5 13th and the glorious uphill par-3 14th. How about the split level nature of the downhill par-5 15th? Shall I go on and on?

The idea that Morgan Hill is simply for "weekend golfers" is nonsense. The good shots are rewarded and the poor ones are held accountable. Geeze Tom -- you've been playing far too much golf at Riviera and need to expand the boundaries of your thinking just a tad. You almost sound like an elitist like Tom Paul. Now that's a scary thought.

P.S. I do agree with you slightly on #10 in the landing areas --but how bout a bit of credit to Moran for the stylish man-made green?

Tom -- you missed the boat on #18. The drive zone is not sufficiently prepared to punish players because it's simply a grip and rip variety. Maybe that's why you didn't mind it.

[Matt_Ward]

Geoff:

Since you completely dismiss Morgan Hill's back nine -- can you please name for me a variety of courses YOU HAVE PLAYED that are truly hilly that you THOROUGHLY ENJOYED?

I want to get a semblance on your take on hilly courses and how they fare according to the Childs rating viewpoint.

Thanks ...

[Matt_Ward]

Geoff:

Your joking / re: The Falls at Lake Las Vegas in Henderson, NV.

Can you tell me the purpose of the following holes there --

*The 461-yard uphill slog at the 10th hole?

*The blind second shot at the silly "green on the edge of the world" site at the par-5 12th at 553 yards?

*The goofball green site at the par-4 13th dog-leg right. I like the tee shot but the hole is nothing more than "gotcha" for the average player.

*The inane drop-shot par-4 14th of 340 yards where anything goes off the tee.

Geoff -- if you wanted to make a case you would need both nines to play equal to each other. Check out the softer contours of a number of holes on the front side -- one of the best being the downhill par-5 2nd and the uphill par-4 5th.

What about the incredibly dull drop-shot at the par-3 8th? One other thing -- when you finish the hole you need to BACKTRACK to get back to the 9th tee which is then aiming at groups that come off the 8th tee. Very good design no doubt.

One other thing -- the 9th and 18th both run parallel to conclude the round and are nothing more than copy cat situations with the water fronting the landing areas for the putting surfaces.

You have cart rides at The Falls that would make a nice location for the filming of the next Bond movie.

When people bitch about Wolf Creek in Mesquite they should stay closer to Vegas and see the ultimate in cart torture rides.

Geoff -- with all due respect -- The Falls -- minus a few holes on the front side -- is simply a miscarriage in terms of design. Frankly, I can't see how you say Morgan Hill is that bad when you insert The Falls as an example of quality hill oriented golf.

[Matt_Ward]

Geoff:

I respect your opinion -- I simply disagree with your conclusions on The Falls. Isn't that what GCA is about is getting details from people on their preferences -- both good and bad.

I would have liked for you to go into further depth than just simply listing a course.

I have not played Bull's Bridge thus far and will likely see it either this year or next.

If you think the bulk of the holes on the back nine at The Falls are playable versus that of Morgan Hill I can read your opinion quite clearly. I'd still like to see the rationale to support that conclusion but it's your right not to provide.

[George Pazin]

bumping for Kyle.

[Kyle Harris]

Thank you George. Interesting that one of my favorite tee shots on the course (11) was panned here.

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