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Matt_Ward

No Cal Course Info Requested
« on: September 03, 2005, 02:44:27 PM »
I will be in the NoCal area starting next week and I have been told about two (2) new courses in the area. Does anyone have personal info -- I don't need the Web addressesut actual personal takes -- on the following layouts ...

Eagle Vines in Napa

The Ranch in San Jose

If anyone does answer this request can you tell me succintly if a visit is worth the time and effort. Please no tap dance or dodge ball responses. I have an extra day and may want to stop and play either or both of them.

Thanks ...

Dan King

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:No Cal Course Info Requested
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2005, 03:06:09 PM »
I sort of walked the Ranch. I don't think anyone has ever actually walked that course. It is on property that never had any business being a golf course. There is some wild elevation changes, and the course is of the modern variety that is quickly falling out of favor (big greens, boring bunkers, immaculate cart paths and lots of down-hill tee shots.) They charge around $100 but seems nobody ever pays full fair. They are constantly pushing specials to fill up their tee sheets.

After walking it once I have no desire to go back with clubs and play it regardless of the price.

Dan King
Quote
Golf is not a good walk spoiled. It is becoming a good walk prohibited. Show me the common sense in this and I promise I will relent. But there is no common sense at all in the prohibition of walking.
 --Lorne Rubenstein

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:No Cal Course Info Requested
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2005, 03:07:26 PM »
I will be in the NoCal area starting next week and I have been told about two (2) new courses in the area. Does anyone have personal info -- I don't need the Web addressesut actual personal takes -- on the following layouts ...

Eagle Vines in Napa

The Ranch in San Jose

If anyone does answer this request can you tell me succintly if a visit is worth the time and effort. Please no tap dance or dodge ball responses. I have an extra day and may want to stop and play either or both of them.

Thanks ...

The Ranch .. .Wow !!!  Search the archives for a Huckaby post on this puppy.

I have not heard many positives about it unless you get a cut of the golf ball sales in the pro-shop.

Not the Huckaby Post but still feedback"
« Last Edit: September 03, 2005, 03:32:53 PM by Mike Benham »
"... and I liked the guy ..."

Dan King

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:No Cal Course Info Requested
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2005, 03:14:34 PM »
A better alternative to the Ranch would be Wente in Livermore. I think they are going to be hosting a Nationwide Tour event (though they will need to cart players from nine green to tenth tee.)

http://www.wentegolf.com/

Dan King
Quote
It could be worse; I could be alergic to beer.
 --Greg Norman (on being allergic to grass)

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:No Cal Course Info Requested
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2005, 03:32:22 PM »
Both of those would be a waste of time.  My suggestion for the best new course which is never talked about is Morgan Creek in Sacramento by Kyle Phillips.

http://www.livemorgancreek.com/

kurt bowman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:No Cal Course Info Requested
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2005, 04:40:51 PM »
Matt,

I am not sure if you have played Mayacama in Santa Rosa, but I feel that is one of the best ND courses anywhere. Let me know if you are interested, and I will try to arrange. Kurt Bowman

Voytek Wilczak

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:No Cal Course Info Requested
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2005, 05:15:19 PM »
Chardonnay is one of the most contrived unnatural intensely unpleasant and repetitive courses I've ever played.

Just like the wine! ;)

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:No Cal Course Info Requested
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2005, 08:07:38 PM »
I actually had a tee time at the Ranch but was talked out of it.  Here is the thread.  I played and liked the Fred Couples course in Hollister, San Juan Oaks.


http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=17355;start=0

Jeff_Stettner

Re:No Cal Course Info Requested
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2005, 08:26:09 PM »
I second the rec. to see Morgan Creek. Well worth the effort.

Andy Silis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:No Cal Course Info Requested
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2005, 10:33:24 AM »
A third to the rec to see and play Morgan Creek. Great job by Kyle Phillips!!!!

A_Clay_Man

Re:No Cal Course Info Requested
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2005, 04:10:17 PM »
Matt, Put all these years to good use and play The Institute, and review it here, please?

Just in case you haven't; LaPurisima, Hunter Ranch and supposedly there is another a hidden gem in Paso Robles??
« Last Edit: September 04, 2005, 04:12:43 PM by Adam Clayman »

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:No Cal Course Info Requested
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2005, 12:06:50 AM »
Neal, given the greater width required for longer holes (same dispersion angle = wider corridor at 320 yards than 280), how much more land do you reckon is required for a 7800 yard course vs a 6800 yard course?  How many more acres of fairway to maintain?  How many more feet of irrigation?  How much of an increase in annual maintenance budget?

Crazy, huh?

THuckaby2

Re:No Cal Course Info Requested
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2005, 10:20:15 AM »
Matt - as Mike B. alludes to, we have discussed THE RANCH many times in here, primarily because most regulars couldn't believe a course exists that could be hated by happy-go-lucky me.  But hate it I do.  And I have to believe you would also... there isn't a single hole there that you could wisely hit a driver on.  OK, maybe one.  But just look at the stats and it ought to tell you all you need to know... app. 6300 yards with a slope over 150... this place puts the P in Penal.  It's also walkable only by triathletes and Scott Burroughs.  This could well be the worst golf course trying to call itself good I have ever seen.  Waste of time doesn't do justice - this place will poison your mind.

As for Eagle Vines in Napa, I played it a few months ago and rather enjoyed it but not to the extent that I am hurrying back to play.  Methinks redanman assessed it correctly.

As for the others people have mentioned, well suggesting going to Morgan Creek is like telling someone going to Philadelphia to go play Winged Foot.  It's not exactly geographically close.  But if you want to put some more miles on the ole rental car, hell go play Stevinson Ranch where we had TKPIV - it's a hell of a great course and I'd love to hear your take on it... though something tells me you might have played it already.

But it seems you are just trying for NEW courses this trip?

If that's the case then perhaps Poplar Creek if you haven't played it?  Short quirky muni, very fun.  Also it's right there near SFO.  Metropolitan GL near Oakland airport is very fun also. Both are re-dos of former munis.  Callippe Preserve is a new course in Pleasanton area that hasn't opened yet (we do the NCGA rating there in October) but heck a well-connected guy like you can find a way to get a preview.  I'd recommend trying that... the buzz is pretty good about the place.. though I obviously have not seen it yet.

BTW, let me know your sked... it's not out of the realm of possiblity I could meet up with you... though soccer practices do weigh heavily these days.   :'(

TH
« Last Edit: September 06, 2005, 06:12:52 PM by Tom Huckaby »

Kevin_Reilly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:No Cal Course Info Requested
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2005, 02:47:35 PM »
I have not played either of the courses listed...but just a general observation that you should check with the courses re: conditioning ahead of time...both courses at Olympic have been aerated in the past two weeks and I assume other courses in NorCal may be on similar schedules.
"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:No Cal Course Info Requested
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2005, 05:18:11 PM »
Matt,

I am a fan of Diablo CC in the East Bay.  A traditional style course with very small, and VERY severe, fast canted greens I have played it a bunch and it has really grown on me over time..

Smokey_Pot_Bunker

Re:No Cal Course Info Requested
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2005, 07:03:56 PM »
Morgan Creek is a definite play.  Granite Bay also in the same area (Sac Town) is another nice course.  Morgan Creek offers a very different look IMHO.

Matt_Ward

Re:No Cal Course Info Requested
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2005, 07:22:47 PM »
Sean:

I have heard a variety of info on Diablo. Who did the design --what is the CR and slope from the tips, etc, etc?

Is there anything there that truly separates itself from the pack? Clearly, you think so. Any detailed info you can provide is most welcomed and certainly appreciated.

Gents:

Thanks for the info on Morgan Creek. I will certainly be visiting. Be curious as to how people who have played Morgan Creek and Winchester -- also in the Sacramento area -- would size the two layouts up. I really enjoyed Winchester and can see why others like it as well.

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:No Cal Course Info Requested
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2005, 08:41:54 PM »
Matt,

Willie Watson did the design, and I believe that Jack Neville may have had a hand in it as well.  It is just over 6600 yards, par 71, Slope of 130.  I have played it probably 25 times, and it has just grown on me over time.  I wouldn't call it a great course, but a very good one that has some interesting features.

Clearly length isn't its main obstacle, it is the very small and severe greens. However it has a couple of beasts 11 at 440ish and 13 at 230 over water)  It is sneaky tough. Holes 1 and 8 are elevated and built into hills, with as severe a back to front cant as I have ever seen on a golf course.  Anything above the hole is just dead.  There is some quirk  (drainage ditch down the left side of number Two, huge trees in the middle of the fairway on 18)  

My favorite holes are 6 ,a 185 yard downhill par three, 14 a 330 yard par 4, and 11, a 440 yard par four.  Six is surrounded by bunkers with a severe green tilting from right to left.  It takes a very well struck iron to hold the green. Anything right bounce towards the green but leaves an impossible up and down.  Foe higher handicappers, the play is short left, with a chip up the hill.  Fourteen has OB right, and bunkers on both sides of the fairway, at the 100 to 125 yard marker. An iron layup short of these bunkers leaves a shortish iron in to a tiny, narrow green surrounded by bunkers on both sides as well as in front.  If you try to hit driver, the fairway gets very tight in front of the green, as as the course normally plays very firm and fast, keeping it on the green is nearly impossibile, as the green slopes gently away from the player. A great match play hole that I play every year in a Scotch tournament.  

Eighteen  has these old trees (white oaks, maybe, I'm not a knowledgable tree guy) right in the middle of the fairway.  It is about 480 yards I think, and it gives you some choices.  You can go left around them, low under them, or high over them if you want to take a chance and have an iron into a well guarded  green with OB 10 yards off the back.  Again, a great match play finishing hole.  


The most interesting part of the course is its greensites.  It was built in 1914, so obviously very little earth was moved.  The greens were built on top of little hills and in little knolls.  Some slant towards you and some away from you, and a number are surrounded by bunkers all the way around. A great members club, in a VERY upscale old community. I have yet to break 76 (I'm a 4) after 25 or so plays with my on ball. Even with the advance in technology, small, firm well protected greens still make the course difficult to score on.

Worth a look see if you have time on your way from Sac to the city...
« Last Edit: September 06, 2005, 10:39:12 PM by Sean Leary »

THuckaby2

Re:No Cal Course Info Requested
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2005, 10:12:23 AM »
I'll concur with Sean re Diablo CC - it is pure fun as I see it.  Trickier than it looks also.  Kinda short and tight.  Great greens.  Sean describes it well.

I hadn't mentioned that because it seemed Matt wanted to see NEW courses... Jeez Matt if you are open to seeing older and/or private clubs as well, the list is nearly endless of those you need to see.  Each of these is well worth seeing if you haven't already, just in the East Bay:

Claremont CC
Sequoyah CC
Mira Vista CC
Orinda CC

I'd assume you've already seen all the famous ones closer to SF, but Cal Club was recently re-done and is WELL worth a visit now, if only to see what deforestation really can do for a course.

And of course Mike Devries' work at Meadow Club is screaming out for you to see.

The list could go on and on and on... how do you want to focus?  And btw re geography, you didn't say you were starting in freakin' Reno and ending in SF... jeez that opens up an entire world of courses in the greater Sacto area, as well as Truckee/Auburn/Reno/Tahoe...

I'm sure you know what's what.  But if you want any other info we are here to help.

 ;)

TH

« Last Edit: September 07, 2005, 10:19:08 AM by Tom Huckaby »

Matt_Ward

Re:No Cal Course Info Requested
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2005, 06:31:51 PM »
Huck:

What town is Meadow club in -- how far from SF?

Is there a Website / tel # for more info.

Thanks ...

Tom Jefferson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:No Cal Course Info Requested
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2005, 06:59:24 PM »
Matt Ward...........Glad to see you've turned towards the Meadow Club.  It's in Fairfax, and is 30-45 minutes north of the Golden Gate Bridge.  Watch the rush hour traffic.

Mayacama is another 45 minutes north, a walkers only Nicklaus design, set in the rolling golden hills and oaks of the wine country.

Good luck!

Tom
the pres

THuckaby2

Re:No Cal Course Info Requested
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2005, 07:00:18 PM »
Matt - Meadow Club is in Fairfax - north of SF about a 40 minute drive, maybe more, maybe less, depends on traffic and your ability to navigate some odd directions and small roads.  It's worth finding though - it is restored to MacKenzie greatness by Mike.  Beyond that it's just very fun to play.

http://www.meadowclub.com/


David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:No Cal Course Info Requested
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2005, 07:00:57 PM »
Matt -

Thru the NCGA website (www.ncga.org) you can access info on any course in NorCal. You can get the course rating, slope, yardage, phone # and a map with basic directions to each course.

FYI, the Meadow Club is 10-15 miles west of San Rafael in Marin Country and is a 30-45 minute drive from the Golden Gate Bridge.

DT

THuckaby2

Re:No Cal Course Info Requested
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2005, 07:01:54 PM »
TJ's suggestion of Mayacama is a great one also - fantastic course also screaming out for you to see if you haven't already.  But it is WAY up there to the north - 45 minutes from Fairfax is conservative and no traffic estimate.

Definitely worth seeing though.

You could spend several weeks here and not get bored.

 ;D

Tom Jefferson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:No Cal Course Info Requested
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2005, 07:02:08 PM »
ps...........after the Olympic Club and SFGC, the Meadow Club would be my choice.

Tom
the pres

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