[Patrick_Mucci]

Narrowed fairways, added length, reconfigured and enlarged bunkers, fairways converted to high rough.

Is this TOC ?

Or has technology forced the greatest of golf courses to morph into just another modern day, Major, PGA Tour venue ?

[NAF]

Tiger hit iron off the tee on the Road Hole to avoid the narrowed fairway or conversely to play for position.. Yes, where are they!

[RJ_Daley]

Well, I just saw Dodd chip off the road into the RHB.  He merely and casually walked up to his ball in the B and took no time to flip a SW to about a foot and a half.  He looked like he was only eyelevel deep from the putting surface.  If they softened the RHB that much, then something is rotten in Denmark, errr I mean Scotland.

[john_stiles]

Well, there you have it.

Everyone must pay homage to the people in the labs and TOC cannot be excepted from that necessity.

[Jerry Kluger]

What's interesting is that with all the extra length and the narrowing, etc., Nicklaus is 3 over because he 3 putted 4 holes. It simply means that if players at that level can adapt to the weather conditions they can score well and the only way to stop it will be to eliminate all the fairways. Seriously though, it really does seem that course set up cannot be severe enough to cause the scores to go dramatically higher.  

[Geoffrey Childs]

Its still special but the setup is bizarre.

Did anyone notice that there is NO fairway to the left of the principal's nose?  This forces a layup and basically takes the bunker complex out of play.

They lengthen the course yet irons are played off tees.

The bunkers look terrible and computer drawn "perfectly shaped".

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Geoffrey, I thought there was always a split in the fairway there. If you went left of the nose you had only 10 yards or so wide and 40 or so long before getting to the rough. Yet it opens up on that side for a shot of 250 or less in that direction.

[Geoffrey Childs]

Tiger

It really looked different to me.  Maybe it was the aerial but there is NO fairway left of the PN.

I'll check my copy of "St Andrews and the Open Championship" tonight for some old photos.

[Willie_Dow]

Let's suggest they take it back to Prestwick, and play stymies!

[JohnV]

Willie, they never played stymies in the Open Championship.  Stymies were only in match play, not stroke play.

[ForkaB]

I think the course is looking and playing great.  Having played there a couple of months ago, I can assure you that the bunkers are not benign, and I really don't think that anybody has ever seriously thought of playing left of the PN bunker since Dr. MacKenzie's day.

[Jeff Fortson]

I worked at the Open in 1995 at the scoreboard next to the 15th green.  I watched hundreds of tee shots off the 16th tee.  I can tell you that over 90% of the players hit long iron or 3-wood left of the Principle's Nose bunker.  Of course, Daly was not one of them.  He aimed driver over the grandstands right (which is OB) and proceeded to hook hit back in play down the right side of the fairway and ended up @ 70 yards from the green.


Jeff F.

[ForkaB]

Wow

I didn't realise that Dr. MacKenzie was alive in 1995!

[Mike_Cirba]

I can also recall the year that Faldo won and Payne Stewart was trying to mount a final charge, Stewart took driver and boldly drove it between the PN and OB, leaving a 60 degree wedge approach which unfortunately spun back down to the bottom.

[ForkaB]

When I played the 16th 2 months ago, there seemed to be oodles of room between the PN and the OB.  I had to pull-hook a 3-wood to get into the PN.

[Mike_Cirba]

Rich,

Oh to have your laser-like precision!!  

The only two I've ever seen go right of the PN from watching on the telly were Daly (dumb) and Steward (bold).  Almost everyone else played left or short.

[A_Clay_Man]

Does the PN still look like a PN?

[Brian Phillips]

Narrowed fairways, added length, reconfigured and enlarged bunkers, fairways converted to high rough.

Is this TOC ?

Or has technology forced the greatest of golf courses to morph into just another modern day, Major, PGA Tour venue ?

Where are the narrowed fairways apart from the 17th?

Added length...always added length since the course opened.

No bunkers have remained exactly the same but the last bunker to be filled in was just after the war I think in 1949 and the newest edition was back in 1933...or was it the other way around?

Do you mean that the bunker shapes are different?  They change slightly every time they rebuild them...

Rich,

When you plaed there you were probably playing a bounce game for fun....and if I remember correctly you even walked off at the 17th didn't you?

When Paul Lawrie won there during the Dunhill he hit between the OB and the bunkers on the 16th to go on to win....however he admitted afterwards that it was unintentional!!

No one goes right unless they have to.

Brian.

[ForkaB]

Brian

As Geoff C. mentioned, it is relatively gnarly rough to the left of the PN.  So much for a centre-line hazard....

[Geoffrey Childs]

On page 219 of "St Andrews and the Open Championship- The Official History" by David Joy with great photos by Iain M Lowe there is an overhead photo of Greg Norman WELL left of the PN bunker complex in a whole field of FAIRWAY. The fairway cut extends from before and beyond the PN bunkers. This was from the 1990 Open Championship.

The setup has changed dramatically on this hole as well as others.

From the hole commentary "The percentage shot is to pick a spot to the left of the nose - but this lengthens the hole and brings "Wig" bunker sunk into the bank at the front of the green into play, left of the flag."

Its a nice book for looking into the history of St Andrews.

[Brian Phillips]

Geoffrey,

My main point about the set up is that it is being played as it is played by 40 000 golfers all year round.  

The rough has not just magically appeared in the last month, it has been like that for about two years now.  I have David Coynes course guide and he has 'run out' at about 290 yards off the back tee just past 'Steeple' bunker on the left.

It is 256 to the front bunker at Principal Nose and about 270-280 to clear the last bunker.  From the front bunker it is 146 to the green and the green is 42 deep.  This yardage book was drawn up in 2004 and includes the new tees.

Yes, the set up of the course changes from Open to Open but it is pretty much played that way throughout the year, unlike a USGA set up where the course is set up just for the Pros.  The only main difference it that the Pros play off tees we never get to use at The Open...thank goodness for that!

The main difference from when I played there about two months ago is the rough on 17 which was being watered all the time and no one was allowed in the area to ensure growth but that is normal practice for that area before any Open.  Have a look at a video when Seve won with that amazing shot from the rough the year he won there in 84, the rough was thick as well.

Yes the course is longer but it is everytime they come back..

The set up is superb (anyone I have spoken to that has been there the last two weeks agrees) and the backbone of the course is the same with some minimal adjustments just as they do everytime there is an Open there.

Brian

[Willie_Dow]

Bri
With just the two of us on here, at this hour, maybe you can help me out.  
Wasn't the original open played as a match ?  Not a medal score ?
Willie

[BuckeyeinBuffalo]

Geoffrey,

My main point about the set up is that it is being played as it is played by 40 000 golfers all year round.  

The rough has not just magically appeared in the last month, it has been like that for about two years now.  I have David Coynes course guide and he has 'run out' at about 290 yards off the back tee just past 'Steeple' bunker on the left.

It is 256 to the front bunker at Principal Nose and about 270-280 to clear the last bunker.  From the front bunker it is 146 to the green and the green is 42 deep.  This yardage book was drawn up in 2003 and includes the new tees.

Yes, the set up of the course changes from Open to Open but it is pretty much played that way throughout the year, unlike a USGA set up where the course is set up just for the Pros.  The only main difference it that the Pros play off tees we never get to use at The Open...thank goodness for that!

The main difference from when I played there about two months ago is the rough on 17 which was being watered all the time and no one was allowed in the area to ensure growth but that is normal practice for that area before any Open.  Have a look at a video when Seve won with that amazing shot from the rough the year he won there in 84, the rough was thick as well.

Yes the course is longer but it is everytime they come back..

The set up is superb (anyone I have spoken to that has been there the last two weeks agrees) and the backbone of the course is the same with some minimal adjustments just as they do everytime there is an Open there.

Brian

[Brian Phillips]

Willie,

I am afraid not....from the website of The Open:

http://www.opengolf.com/history/past_opens.sps?PartNo=1


Prestwick, on the west coast of Scotland, was the venue for the first Open Championship. The prize was the Challenge Belt, subscribed for by members of Prestwick Golf Club. Clubs around England and Scotland were each invited to send not more than three professional players to compete in the competition, which was held over three rounds of the twelve-hole links course. There was no prize money, but the winner received custody of the Belt for the year. If a player won the Belt three years in succession, it would be his to keep.

The first Open Championship was played on Wednesday, 17th October in windy conditions. Tom Morris, the Keeper of the Green at Prestwick, was the local favourite, but Willie Park took the first round lead with a score of 55, three shots better than Morris. Both Park and Morris did the second round in 59 strokes, so Park maintained his lead. In the final round, Morris could only make up a single stroke when he shot a 59 to finish on 176, so Willie Park, who went round in 60, was the first Open Champion with a score of 174.

[Willie_Dow]

Thanks Brian

My recollection of Willie Dow vs ? Park, and his sinking a putt to win one up - was obviously not an Open.  

An old mind, but still trying !

Willie

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