Is Pebble Irrelevant Too? Article

« **on:** July 13, 2005, 12:00:46 PM »

http://www.montereyherald.com/mld/montereyherald/sports/12121311.htm

« **Reply #1 on:** July 13, 2005, 12:25:34 PM »

"Currently, Pebble Beach is in a three-phase process that will make the 15th an almost completely new hole.

Five fairway bunkers have been added on the left past the swale -- a marshy area -- including a nasty pot bunker that is nearest to the fairway.

The two greenside bunkers have been upgraded, pinching the corners on the front so as to tighten the approach shots.

In addition, three trees on the right side adjacent to the green will be planted."

I saw this work a few days ago, and "mixed reviews" is my positive spin. The bunkers on the far left are so-so, but the pot bunker looked awful. It's a pot bunker due to it's depth, but it's fairly large and doesn't fit Pebble at all. Even my non-architecturally-bent Stepfather laughed at it.

The article said it's "nearest" the fairway, when it's actually IN the fairway.

They were working on the right front greenside bunker while we were there.

I have a couple of pictures of the work at home that I'll try to post tonight if I have time.

« **Reply #2 on:** July 13, 2005, 12:35:42 PM »

The article does not say who is doing the work, but I have a pretty good hunch who it might be.

I think it's unfair for golf architects to promote their own work by trying to sabotage the golf courses above them in the rankings.

« **Reply #3 on:** July 13, 2005, 12:40:33 PM »

I hope that Shivas get's artistic credit (or even royalties) for those pot bunkers on the 15th!

« **Reply #4 on:** July 13, 2005, 01:26:41 PM »

Quote from: Tom_Doak on July 13, 2005, 12:35:42 PM

The article does not say who is doing the work, but I have a pretty good hunch who it might be.

I think it's unfair for golf architects to promote their own work by trying to sabotage the golf courses above them in the rankings.

Tom,

I can think of at least two architects who seem to practice a "lowest common denominator" approach to tinkering with classics.

Essentially, despite what might have been there before it always comes out looking like another one of their courses, particularly feature shaping like bunkering, etc.

So which of the two are we talking about? Should we rename the course to "Shadow Beach" or "Pebascata"?

« **Reply #5 on:** July 13, 2005, 01:33:39 PM »

If all this isn't proof that freshman mistakes are being made, I don't what does.

Quote

The tee box was lowered and pushed back, and four new bunkers, two on each side, were added so as to force Tour players to shape their tee shots, and penalize those that didn't.

FORCE

All this means is more business for Mike Keiser.

Mike. C. - Marzoff?

« **Reply #6 on:** July 13, 2005, 01:41:55 PM »

On the Nike thread Dan K. mentioned the letter of complaint he sent to Nike for their bad taste in a particular commercial.

Has any of the treehouse ever sent a similar letter of complaint to any architect for their work on a classic course?

« **Reply #7 on:** July 13, 2005, 01:42:00 PM »

Adam,

Super.

At least I feel some relief that Pebble never had (and subsequently lost) an interesting multi-fairway like 8 at Riviera for the talented Mr. Marzolf to attempt to restore!

Perhaps he can create a super-ramp leading up to the top of the hill on 6, as well.

If Tommy reads this, I'm betting he can put it together using his computer skills.

« **Reply #8 on:** July 13, 2005, 01:52:46 PM »

Mike

Why do you think its Fazio or Rees?

Didn't Nicklaus put in bunkers on the right of #13 already?

Didn't Nicklaus build the new 5th hole?

Was his work so poorly thought of that they replaced him with Fazio or Rees?

« **Reply #9 on:** July 13, 2005, 01:56:10 PM »

Quote from: Geoffrey Childs on July 13, 2005, 01:52:46 PM

Mike

Why do you think its Fazio or Rees?

Didn't Nicklaus put in bunkers on the right of #13 already?

Didn't Nicklaus build the new 5th hole?

Was his work so poorly thought of that they replaced him with Fazio or Rees?

Patric....er...um...Geoffrey,

So many questions, my friend!

I just have a strong hunch that the Fazio team wants to "work on" (i.e. pillage, deflower, insert your choice of verb here) all 10 of the Top 10 classic courses simultaneously.

Adam...do you know the scoop?

« **Reply #10 on:** July 13, 2005, 01:58:58 PM »

Isn't Arnold Palmer part of the ownership group at Pebble? Why wouldn't his group be doing the work.

« **Reply #11 on:** July 13, 2005, 02:01:39 PM »

Mike

I know that Nicklaus has worked on more than one project at Pebble Beach. The latest as far as I know was putting those pot fairway bunkers down the right side of #13 fairway.

If his work was so poorly thought of by the owners of PB (Arnold Palmer included) that he would be replaced then I think that is a real news story.

I certainly agree with you about Fazio's "work on" classic courses with high profiles being a travesty. I recall laughing harder at Jasna Palona then at Riviera but that was pretty baaaad.

ps- can you think of a single sensitive restoration job that Nicklaus orgaanization has done?

« **Reply #12 on:** July 13, 2005, 02:23:42 PM »

Quote from: Geoffrey Childs on July 13, 2005, 02:01:39 PM

Mike

I know that Nicklaus has worked on more than one project at Pebble Beach. The latest as far as I know was putting those pot fairway bunkers down the right side of #13 fairway.

If his work was so poorly thought of by the owners of PB (Arnold Palmer included) that he would be replaced then I think that is a real news story.

I certainly agree with you about Fazio's "work on" classic courses with high profiles being a travesty. I recall laughing harder at Jasna Palona then at Riviera but that was pretty baaaad.

ps- can you think of a single sensitive restoration job that Nicklaus orgaanization has done?

Geoffrey,

Re: your p.s., the only courses that come to mind where the Nicklaus org has done "restoration" work that I'm aware of are ANGC and Pebble. Neither would likely qualify in the "sensitive" category, although the 5th at Pebble is a decent attempt at emulating the style of the rest of the course.

At some point they may need to restore Muirfield Village...is there anything more visually hideous than those new bunkers extending down the right side of #18?

« **Reply #13 on:** July 13, 2005, 02:31:20 PM »

Mike Nuzzo -- a great idea! I have sent many "firm" letters to companies over the years on consumer issues, so your idea is certainly food for thought if I get out to , oh, say, Inverness some day...

and Mike C: glad you agree re those bunkers on MV 18...I posted the same idea right after the tournament...

« **Reply #14 on:** July 13, 2005, 02:35:42 PM »

Geoffrey,

I just remembered why I leaped to the conclusion that it wasn't Jack doing the work at Pebble.

Remember that new bunker that was built along the right side of the 18th fairway at Pebble about 2 years ago?

Whatever their shortcomings in the "restoration" arena, there's no way Jack's team builds that monstrosity.

« **Reply #15 on:** July 13, 2005, 02:40:07 PM »

Mike

You might be right about the bunker on 18. Who did that one and why was Nicklaus replaced?

Tom Fazio can't just walk into a course and take a job. Someone had to hire him (Arnold Palmer) and take the work away from Nicklaus. I find this interesting.

« **Reply #16 on:** July 13, 2005, 02:54:10 PM »

Mike Cirba- The scoop is either a faded memory or just commonn sense. However, I have no idea if Mr. Marzolf is directly involved.

I may remember hearing during the 04' AT&T telecast the name of the Fazio brand as having done the bunker work on 14. Did anyone notice the attempt to mimic the cove on one of the added bunkers on the right side past the massive old bunker?

The common sense part is that The Faz has designed the Forest course and is the archie du'jour.

« **Reply #17 on:** July 14, 2005, 11:32:38 AM »

Here are the pics I promised of the bunker work on #15:

Some of the far left bunkers and you can see the right front
greenside bunker work being done (pinching the front more).
You can also see the sodded rough-to-be around the new
pot bunker (with rake on bank):

more of the left side bunker field:

the new pot bunker in the fairway. Ugh.

« **Reply #18 on:** July 14, 2005, 11:46:22 AM »

Too late, Shivas.

You're already listed as architect of record.

I think you need to spend more time onsite so that you can monitor the work of your obviously inept shapers.

« **Reply #19 on:** July 14, 2005, 11:46:26 AM »

Hmm...a little puffy?

I don't think the pot bunker is that bad, but I like variety rather than any bunkering "theme."

Edit: On second look, it is a bit pustule-like. Maybe I just don't mind the idea of a pot bunker.

« **Reply #20 on:** July 14, 2005, 11:48:23 AM »

Did Huge "Puffy" Wilson make it out to the left coast again??

That gangsta rapper is always causing trouble for my peeps.

Hey, I have an idea. They just need to grow the grass on those faces about 12 inches long like they now need to do at Merion and that should mask any unsightly shaping.

It might even have people who should know better here claiming they now look natural and rugged.

« **Reply #21 on:** July 14, 2005, 11:53:57 AM »

Quote from: Mike Cirba on July 14, 2005, 11:48:23 AM

Did Huge "Puffy" Wilson make it out to the left coast again??

That gangsta rapper is always causing trouble for my peeps.

Mike

I believe he has indeed. A little GCA birdie told me he was redoing 3 greens and ALL the bunkers at Riviera.

« **Reply #22 on:** July 14, 2005, 12:04:29 PM »

Do those steps into the pot bunker comply with the ADA? I've been reading it lately, but I'm not a lawyer and I'm not sure if I should be trying to interpret it.

« **Reply #23 on:** July 14, 2005, 12:08:05 PM »

Lowering the tee doesn't sound like a Fazio modification to me.

Does anyone know for certain or is every speculating?

« **Reply #24 on:** July 14, 2005, 12:11:27 PM »

Eric,

One thing about the bunker is that it doesn't fit. Heck, even
the other bunkers on the left don't look much like the rest of
Pebble's bunkers, except maybe the new ones at the right of
#18's landing area.

Like Shivas, I don't like the wiggly fairway lines.

Here's the straight lines (w/narrowed fairways taken 2 weeks before the 2000 U.S. Open/Tiger Invitational):

and widened fairways (beyond the current left bunker lines!) in December 2003:

News:

NAF

Scott_Burroughs

Tom_Doak

ForkaB

Mike_Cirba

A_Clay_Man

Mike Nuzzo

Mike_Cirba

Geoffrey Childs

Mike_Cirba

Craig Van Egmond

Geoffrey Childs

Mike_Cirba

PThomas

Mike_Cirba

Geoffrey Childs

A_Clay_Man

Scott_Burroughs

Mike_Cirba

Eric Pevoto

Mike_Cirba

Geoffrey Childs

Brian_Gracely

George Pazin

Scott_Burroughs