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Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Wie and her Putter
« on: June 26, 2005, 03:39:49 PM »
Has anyone bothered to introduce Wie to her putter? She has a nice game, except she putts like an 80 year old man with yips on top of his yips.
No one is above the law. LOCK HIM UP!!!

rgkeller

Re:Wie and her Putter
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2005, 07:04:12 PM »
Wie putted very well, especially on short putts, for the first three rounds.

However, she found out that short putts on a Sunday with a chance to win are an entirely different matter.

Winning IS learned from experience.

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wie and her Putter
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2005, 08:24:05 PM »
I just can't get ove the fact that a 15 year old is THAT good!!

SHE'S ONLY 15!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :o ???
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

tonyt

Re:Wie and her Putter
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2005, 10:04:57 PM »
Has anyone bothered to introduce Wie to her putter? She has a nice game, except she putts like an 80 year old man with yips on top of his yips.

Experience and choices the thing today perhaps?

It aint the putter in general. Save for today, she's spent all this year draining every five footer in the heart.

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wie and her Putter
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2005, 10:06:06 PM »
She should try a HAMMY.

 ;) :)
"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Phil_the_Author

Re:Wie and her Putter
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2005, 08:07:00 AM »
Paul,

You wrote, "I just can't get ove the fact that a 15 year old is THAT good!! SHE'S ONLY 15!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

You do have a good point. After all, Morgan Pressley has years more experience at 17!

I do think that NBC, et.al., did Morgan a disservice in constantly touting Wie on Saturday's broadcast with, "If Michelle Wie win's she will be the youngest Open champion & only the second amateur to win the Open..." No mention of this in the case of Pressley  who was basically tied with her all day. In fact she was barely mentioned other than as an afterthought.

And didn't young Miss Lang also do rather well and also would have fallen into that distinguished group of "youngest Open champion & only the second amateur to win the Open..." ?

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wie and her Putter
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2005, 09:32:46 AM »
Philip -- I didn't watch Sat but if that was the case that was unfair to Morgan

a great showing by ALL the young women!!

saddest sight:  when Ochoa  (I think that was her) hit that UGLY tee shot into the water on 18 and took the dreaded snowman...par on the hole would have got her into a playoff at least and may have very well won since she would have posted first

I guess she hit a similar shot in a playoff against Annika this year, so hopefully this will not spook her game permanently
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Dave_Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wie and her Putter
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2005, 10:53:46 AM »
Paul,

 You do have a good point. After all, Morgan Pressley has years more experience at 17!

I do think that NBC, et.al., did Morgan a disservice in constantly touting Wie on Saturday's broadcast with, "If Michelle Wie win's she will be the youngest Open champion & only the second amateur to win the Open..." No mention of this in the case of Pressley  who was basically tied with her all day. In fact she was barely mentioned other than as an afterthought.

Michelle Wie constantly gets all the attention but if one goes back and looks at the record, including events they played together, Morgan Pressel has consistently outperformed Michelle Wie.  
What is it with TV? Or is it the fact that Michelle Wie's father is simply a huge self promoter for his daughter.
Best
Dave
« Last Edit: June 27, 2005, 11:19:05 AM by Dave_Miller »

Brent Hutto

Re:Wie and her Putter
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2005, 11:14:55 AM »
Quote
Michelle Wie constantly gets all the attention but if one goes back and looks at the record, including events they played together, Morgan Pressley has consistently outperformed Michelle Wie.  
What is it with TV? Or is it the fact that Michelle Wie's father is simply a huge self promoter for his daughter.

TV shows the personalities that people want to watch, which is in part determined by who is shown on TV. It is to a certain extent a circular argument but that's the nature of popular culture.

In the case of Wie versus Pressel I can think of several things (in addition to an obviously effective job of promotion being done by the Wie family) that get Wie more television time:

1) A 15-year-old playing against adults is a bigger story than a 17-year-old playing against adults.

2) Michelle Wie is an unusual physical specimen. She'd present a very striking appearance on television even if she weren't a good golfer.

3) Morgan Pressel comes across as a brat every time the camera is on her. She's extremely demonstrative when she makes a good shot and she pitches little mini-tantrums when she misses a shot or makes a bogey. Michelle Wie by contrast comports herself very professionally.

4) Michelle Wie hits the ball farther and higher than Morgan Pressel or any of the other women save perhaps Laura Davies and a handful of others. Chicks dig the long ball, you know.

5) In the past Morgan Pressel has complained that she isn't getting her fair share of media attention. In general, you don't get attention by obviously demanding it and I think that attitude has harmed her Q-ratings.

6) Michelle Wie has played against the best male players in the world. Now admittedly Morgan Pressel would have done so as well if given the chance but as I say, celebrity status and TV face time are a circular arrangement.

johnk

Re:Wie and her Putter
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2005, 12:48:26 PM »
Brent, I agree with your analysis, and I also remember Morgan Pressel's bratty behaviour back at Pinehurst when she pissed off some of the vets.

However, considering that she lost her mother to breast cancer at age 13 or so, I think she deserves a second chance and hopefully will not come off as so conceited in the future.  I thought she was fun to watch and handled herself a lot better than in the past.

As for Michelle Wie, I think all the people who suggested that she might need to "learn to win" (i.e. Tiger) are thinking "I told you so" right now...  Man, that choke was about as incredible as Goosen's - given how she looked on Sat., and then Sunday.  She does need to learn how to finish.

It also goes to show that how the swing looks is not the way to necessarily judge the player.  Johnny Miller calling her swing one of the top 5 in golfs - better than Tigers - is falling into that trap of aesthetics over results.  She does have a great swing, but she isn't yet a winner.

I would like to see Wie at the Masters.  I think it'd be good for golf, but I do think she'd be incredibly overmatched by the course.

Brent Hutto

Re:Wie and her Putter
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2005, 12:56:07 PM »
I think playing in the Masters is a great dream for a teenaged female player. It would be fun to watch, no doubt.

I know of a local guy who's a low-handicap amateur and his goal is to win the Mid-Am one day and play in the Masters. He's still miles away from having his game at that level but getting closer every year. Who knows, maybe one day he'll make it but even if he doesn't that dream has him out there working hard (and smart) at his golf game and he does far better in local and state tournaments than he did a couple years ago. A dream plus a commitment is a great thing to see, especially when it's coupled to natural talent like Michelle Wie's.

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wie and her Putter
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2005, 01:00:22 PM »
Goosen was perceived prior to this year's U.S. Open as the steadiest, most choke-proof golfer on the planet. If it can happen to him, it can certainly happen to a 15-year-old, and it doesn't necessarily mean the 15-year-old is going about her career the wrong way.
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Tim McManus

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wie and her Putter
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2005, 01:02:30 PM »
I did not watch Saturday's round, but I thought NBC payed the proper attention to the contenders on Sunday.  Despite playing with the eventual winner, they hardly showed any of Wie's shots after she fell out of contention.  They also noted several times that Lang would earn the distinction of youngest ever USGA winner if she would have won.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2005, 01:02:54 PM by tmac »

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wie and her Putter
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2005, 01:13:43 PM »
I had a hunch Goosen wouldn't win just cause of history, as very few have defended Open titles:  Hogan, Strange, Anderson, maybe a few more
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

David Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wie and her Putter
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2005, 01:24:35 PM »
Does anyone know where I can cash in my "A 15-year-old tied for the lead in the U.S. Open will shoot an 82 on Sunday" stock?
"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wie and her Putter
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2005, 01:33:55 PM »
David, there are probably some offshore betting sites that can honor your request. :)

It's a shame that today's media driven world necessitated an interview with Michelle after her round. It would be nice if they occasionally thought about the fact that she's just a 15 year old girl.

Michelle wasn't the only one fighting her putter. It's interesting to me that as swings are becoming more machine-like throughout all levels of golf, it is exposing how poor the putting is on many levels as well.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wie and her Putter
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2005, 05:00:05 PM »
The sad thing about Michelle's putting is that it is not likely to get better. I don't know many, if any, people who improved their putting when they got older. She just doesn't have a comfortable natural stroke. Most kids have nerveless putting strokes, but Michelle is not one of them.
   I hope Michelle starts winning soon, because she is wasting valuable mental energy right now. You can only go to the well so many times before it dries up.
   Of course I was wrong about Phil M. never winning a major unless he had a big lead and coasted home.  :)
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

David Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wie and her Putter
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2005, 06:34:21 PM »
Ed,

I improved my putting as I got older.  I used to be horrendous and now I'm just terrible.
"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wie and her Putter
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2005, 08:04:20 PM »
Most of the young punks (14,15,16 year olds) that hang around my course can knock the stuffing out of a Titileist and shoot a pretty good game...BUT...for the most part they have terrible short games and can't putt worth a darn....and once you're in their head they're toast...

The weird thing is most of them hardly practice their putting and show little interest in getting better...certainly NONE put the hours in on the practice green that they will on the range banging drivers...

Whether this is Michelle Wie's problem, I don't know...but its clear she isn't very comfortable on the green and she hasn't been since she arrived on the scene.

As for all this "learn to win" stuff...I think that's a load of bunk! She will win...she will win a lot...she's 15 years old playing against ADULT women and men...she is extremely competitive against them....her parents have said it would be crazy to spend the same amount of money...probably more...traveling from Hawaii to play against a bunch of 12-15 year olds in junior tourneys every week or two just so she can say she won something...if Michelle Wie were a tennis player or a swimmer, she would be world class and competing against the best... and no one would be talking about her age and "learning to win"....people should accept the fact that golf is WAY behind the rest of sports in advancing its better players to world class level competition.

No one is above the law. LOCK HIM UP!!!

johnk

Re:Wie and her Putter
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2005, 12:50:27 AM »
Craig, do you think it's a coincindence that Tiger is something like 35-3 when he holds the 54 hole lead?  9-0 in majors?

I don't.

Wie has lost to lesser players in several competitions.  The last thing she's won was the Women's Amateur Public Links in 2003.

Here's her scoring in the LPGA majors, in almost every case she's been in the top 5 at some point on the weekend.

76 Sunday, 2003 Kraft Nabisco - 9th
76-76 on the weekend 2003 US Open -33rd
71 Sunday 2004 Kraft Nabisco - fourth
73 Sunday 2004 US Open - 13th
71 Sunday Kraft Nabisco - 14th
69 Sunday McDonalds 2005 - 2nd
82 Sunday 2005 US Open - 23rd

Fine stuff, but not exactly finishing strong. Of course the refrain of "she is only 15" can always be used, but the point is that she has not closed anyone out at the level she chooses to play.

If she ever becomes dominant, I guarantee you will hear her say that she's learned how to win on the final day...

Experience is involved.  And the ability to do it separates the great from the very good.


Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wie and her Putter
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2005, 01:56:31 AM »
As an interesting comparison, and as a generalization, most of the young guns, whether it is the Korean women, Michelle Wie or anyone from the Ledbetter camp (CHIII), seem to be wonderful strikers of the ball but a bit mechanized on how to win or adapt to situations that aren't going according to plan.

Can we compare these youngsters to those on the tennis courts, the seemingly endless parade of teenage Russian women tennis players?  The mechanics of the game drilled endlessly into their minds and muscles yet lacking the knowledge/experience on how to win?
"... and I liked the guy ..."

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wie and her Putter
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2005, 06:29:12 AM »
We could have a long and lenghty discussion about whether winning is the goal, or making a living, or being happy...etc.

I forget who said this, but I heard someone complaining about the players on the pro tennis circuit that were very happy to show up, hang around until the quarter finals, take their money and leave...claiming that even the guy ranked 100 made a pretty darn good living.

Michelle Wie will win more tournaments...whether she "learns" how to win may never happen. It takes a very special person to figure out how to marshall the enternal resources to grind it out and win...to put the pedal down on Sunday and win going away...etc. Not all great golfers possed that ability, yet they won and won often.
No one is above the law. LOCK HIM UP!!!

John Keenan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wie and her Putter
« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2005, 10:09:17 AM »
Mr. Benham has it nailed I feel.

The Ledbetter school is the golf version of the Nick Bunconni (sp?) tennis school of a few years ago. Lots of young guns lived there and were trained but the large majority flammed out with out much to show for it. Who came to the tennis world and won the Williams sisters from Compton CA. They learned at an early age how to win. They may have their issues today but they were tough to beat when they burst on the scene.

I think the issue of learning to win is a big deal and cannot be taught at a camp or school.  You learn by doing. The mental game needs to be developed just as the basic skill does. In the tennis world Brad Gilbert (Winning Ugly) is a good coach who knows how to help players to win. Not sure if golf has a counterpart.
The things a man has heard and seen are threads of life, and if he pulls them carefully from the confused distaff of memory, any who will can weave them into whatever garments of belief please them best.

Andy Doyle

Re:Wie and her Putter
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2005, 10:11:10 AM »
Not sure if golf has a counterpart.

Earl Woods

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wie and her Putter
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2005, 11:17:06 AM »
I believe she has qualified for the US Public Links and it is going to be played at Shaker Run in Ohio.  Is anyone familiar with the course and how it will be set up for the event and its current condition.

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