News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Please note, each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us and we will be in contact.


Brian_Gracely

How do you read the greens?
« on: March 15, 2005, 12:31:50 PM »
I'll try and fit this cleanly into one the four categories suggested by Tom Paul.  

To begin with, I'm an absolutely horrible putter.  I don't have a clue how to read greens and I sit in wonder trying to figure out what guys like Tiger might be looking at while stalking a putt.  

So I ask the question in a few different ways?

1. For those of you that are good putters, what sorts of things do you traditionally look for when you're approaching the green and when you're on the green?  I know every green is different, but are there some obvious keys that you're always looking for?

2.  For those of you that are architects, what are the common tricks you use to make green-reading more difficult?  

3. I probably play more Ross courses than anything else, and the one thing that always baffles me is how Ross had this ability (at least by my eye), to make all putts "look" flat once you're standing over the ball, but you know full well that there are contours because you saw them as you approached the green or look at the putt from behind the ball.  I can't figure out how he does this....any explanations?  


Kyle Harris

Re:How do you read the greens?
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2005, 12:39:38 PM »
Brian, the best way to become a better reader of greens is to go to your practice green without a putter and a few balls, then roll the ball to the holes from about three feet above the surface (lob it towards the hole). Note how the ball bounces when it hits the green, and how the slope affects it as it slows down.

Then get your putter and hit a few similar putts and notice any differences or similarities. What this does in ingrain a feel for speed (THE ABSOLUTE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT OF READING A GREEN, got it?  ;) ;D).

When on the course, begin by noting the ground around the green, and how the green slopes in relation to that. One misleading thing that often happens with golfers reading the green is that their eyes are not level because their whole body is on a slope. Remind yourself everytime to make sure your eyes are as level as possible, and by paying attention as you walk toward the green you can note any trouble areas slope wise.

Most golfers over read the putt for the first few feet off the putter and under read the putt around the hole. Remember, as the ball dies, it will be affected more and more by slope, especially on quicker greens.

Other than that, it's all about preshot routine and feel, so my best advice is practice a preshot routine and practice distance control and feel.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2005, 12:40:11 PM by Kyle Harris »

Kyle Harris

Re:How do you read the greens?
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2005, 12:44:20 PM »
I should add that I am a "Spot" putter, meaning I look to get the ball to a certain spot on the green in order to get it to the hole. Therefore, I tend to read greens to this spot, and then read them from the spot to the hole.

There are also "Path" putters who visualize a complete path to the hole.

rjsimper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How do you read the greens?
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2005, 12:45:37 PM »
I consider myself to be a pretty good putter -

First things first - For any putt outside of say, 10 feet...speed is INFINITELY more important than line.  If you consider yourself a poor putter, then you probably aren't expecting to make anything longer than 10 feet - get the speed right, and you'll "accidentally" make a few - get the speed wrong and you'll accidentally make hardly any...

I read putts in two stages - first from behind, then from over the ball...you can feel quite a bit with your feet if you have them well trained.

Don't make it more complex than it needs to be - one of the tragedies of the information and media age is that golfers, both good and bad, think that by lining a putt up from four angles like Tigger does will increase your chances of making it, when in fact that may put too many things in your head to keep straight - I can't tell you how many times I have left a bread and butter 10 foot birdie putt short because I was thinking about too many things - Leave a few big putts like this short and I promise you will think less.

Don't get too in to architecture when you're putting - look for the high spot and the low spot on the green (only if you are initially in doubt about which way or how much break)

I have my two stages, behind the ball and over the ball, and if I cant come up with a read I like from these, I go to stage three which is to locate the high and low spots on the green and see if that might influence -

Stage four is to consider the fall of the course - the classic and horridly misleading "EVERYTHING BREAKS TO THE OCEAN" or "Everything breaks toward Pinnacle Peak" mantra...I particularly love this one at Los Verdes Muni in So. Cal, considering the course is on a peninsula and Ocean is in 3 directions....

Regarding the Ross phenomenon, I can't explain it, but I know that the 14th green at Rustic Canyon still confuses me to this day - there are some putts that have no logical reason to break the way they do...

Most importantly with the putting, and it probably is even more important on a site like this, Don't think so damn much - many of us try to calculate some complex algorithm based on all of our knowledge to come up with a precise strategy for one putt when it might be better to just walk up to it and say you yourself "stroke it firm and let it fall a half-ball to the left"

Drano.



Patrick_Mucci

Re:How do you read the greens?
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2005, 12:49:53 PM »
Brian Gracely,

I think it's an inate talent, but one can learn to be a good reader of greens with the right tutor.

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How do you read the greens?
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2005, 01:09:52 PM »
Quickly :)

First instincts are usually best, and certainly the easiest to remain committed to. You also must have a solid understanding of your tendencies (ie: pull, push, slice, short etc..)

Don_Mahaffey

Re:How do you read the greens?
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2005, 01:20:01 PM »
I'm a lot better at reading putts then actaully putting the ball. I've caddied quite a bit for club pros in Open local and sectional events, PGA qualifiers...and I'm usually pretty good at giving a good line. My method is simple. I just visualize dumping a bucket of water at the hole and seeing how the water would drain. If you can figure out how a green surface drains, you'll usually get a pretty good idea of the line.

Patrick_Mucci

Re:How do you read the greens?
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2005, 01:26:10 PM »
Don Mahaffey,

That was my dad's first lesson, the water test.

P.S.  Good eyesight helps.

The individual golfer knows or contemplates the speed at which he will hit the putt, hence one read may vary from others.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2005, 01:27:50 PM by Patrick_Mucci »

ForkaB

Re:How do you read the greens?
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2005, 01:29:26 PM »
Don Mahaffey,

That was my dad's first lesson, the water test.

P.S.  Good eyesight helps.

The individual golfer knows or contemplates the speed at which he will hit the putt, hence one read may vary from others.

...it's also why Tom Doak is the best reader of putts I've ever seen.  That man knows his drainage...... :)

Jeff Fortson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How do you read the greens?
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2005, 01:32:49 PM »
You guys got to it before me!

The first most basic rule.....  which way would water drain?


Jeff F.
#nowhitebelt

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How do you read the greens?
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2005, 01:33:45 PM »
Brian,

Have you tried reading glasses?

Remember:  All putts are straight if you hit them hard enough.

Seriously, I love the drainage method and will give it a try.  

Hopefull this thread will be followed by one titled:  "How do you putt the ball where you aim it?"

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How do you read the greens?
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2005, 01:44:13 PM »
I'm a streaky putter and it's one of the few relative stengths of my game, relative of course being the operative word. When I'm putting well, I just walk up and see the path the ball will travel. When I'm not, I usually rely on the drainage clues.

Usually what is more challenging for me is reading the speed of greens, but that would probably come with more practice or play. How many mid to high handicappers actually practice lag putting?

I also make more 8-12 footers for double bogey than anyone I know - not that that is something to be proud of. :)
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How do you read the greens?
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2005, 01:45:46 PM »
six beats seven every day of the week.

peter_p

Re:How do you read the greens?
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2005, 01:51:39 PM »
In addition to the above I also look at color, whether light or dark and how it changes as you move around. This can indicate slope as well as direction of grain.

Be aware of slope through the soles of your feet. Or try and stand upright and seek which way you eventually tilt (downhill). It's now illegal, but check the fluid level of a half empty water bottle.

The hole is supposed to be cut vertically. If it looks off-kilter the thicker side is probably the uphill side.

Watch every ball on the green and how it moves. If you see someone putting on a future green, wath that too.

If you have a partner who is helping to read putts, his read is defined by how he putts.

I'm a spot putter when there is a fall/fault line, otherwise I "see" the line of the putt.

John_Cullum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How do you read the greens?
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2005, 01:57:01 PM »
BG

As yo may have noticed, I am no accomplished putter either, but I am about 200% better than I was 4 years ago.

As far as reading a green, if I am uncertain as to which way a putt breaks, I always try to ask myself, "which way will it not break?" Sometimes when you look at it in this context, you can see an influence that will cut down on your uncertainty.

Also, try to determine if you are walking uphill or downhill when stalking your putt.
"We finally beat Medicare. "

Mike McGuire

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How do you read the greens?
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2005, 02:04:44 PM »
Peter -

One trick a friend taught me about learning speed watching someone else putt.

If you can get a slight read , watch him strike the putt. Then without following the ball try to guess if the speed is right. If your way off you should evaluate the situation again.

Mike McG

Doug Siebert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How do you read the greens?
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2005, 02:17:32 PM »
I too am a big believer in the "where would the water go" theory of reading putts.  I also do a plumb bob as a way of avoiding being fooled by green sites or entire courses that have some slope to them (really helps on those optical illusion greens that are set into hillsides)

For multiple breaks, if there is time while others are chipping on or reading their putts, I try to read each piece individually.  Its not so much about trying to actually make the putt, but you want to make sure you follow its path correctly because starting off on the wrong side of a ridge past the first break is where you get those 15 foot second putts.

But of course, the last thing you should ever think about before stroking the putt is speed speed speed!
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How do you read the greens?
« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2005, 02:25:27 PM »
Re double-breakers:  I was taught years ago to play the first break only.  That makes no sense, but it was what I was taught.  Comments?
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Kyle Harris

Re:How do you read the greens?
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2005, 02:28:07 PM »
At the risk of being confusing...

You play the first break into the point where you think the second break starts...

Once the second break starts, there isn't much the golfer can do but put the ball in the correct spot to get near/in the hole. In other words, by that time, the line and speed of the putt have been modified enough by the first break that regardless of how well struck the putt was... it's all physics.

I think that's what was meant by your advice.

peter_p

Re:How do you read the greens?
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2005, 02:30:52 PM »
Mike,
The ball is going faster on the first break, so that read should be reduced a bit. Of course, if you misread the first break, the second becomes irrelevant.

The higher you play a putt, the more it will break.

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How do you read the greens?
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2005, 02:34:02 PM »
I usually begin my read from the fairway approaching the green. I can usually tell the overall slope of the green before I even get to the ball.

When in doubt, I use the which way would the water fall method.

I pay more attention to the last part of the break as I know it breaks more than the initial start of the putt.

If I miss a putt by putting way past the hole, I generally believe that it will be very slow comming back.
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How do you read the greens?
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2005, 02:34:05 PM »
First I look to see if it will break left or right, and try to visualize the actually line the ball will take. When I actually "see" the line I know there is a very good chance I will make the putt.
Next I look to see if the ball is going downhill or uphill to get the speed right.
If I am unsure of the break or slope at this point I will feel what my feet are telling me. And if my feet are telling me there is more break than I see then I trust my feet.

Also, the best drill for my putting stroke ever was one I read by Greg Norman (I'm sure its been around for a long time) where he said he doesn't leave the practice putting green until he makes a certain number of putts in a row from all around the cup. I usually try to do 10 in a row from 3-5 feet before I stop. The last couple really get your attention when your back is starting to ache and you want to go home.
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Kyle Harris

Re:How do you read the greens?
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2005, 02:36:24 PM »
Ed,

To add to that drill, it's best to put them around the hole like a compass, that way you get a feel for different breaks and speeds.

Brian_Sleeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How do you read the greens?
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2005, 02:39:05 PM »
People who've golfed with me say they've never seen someone make so many long putts and miss so many little ones.  I feel like I can really read and feel greens well which lends itself to making more than my share of long ones, but for the short ones which, in my opinion, are more a matter of technique and repetition, I still need to do some work (and possibly look into a labotamy).  I've never really put my method of reading greens into text, so please bear with me and forgive my rambling, long-winded tendencies...

I guess I'm a bit different in that I don't separate line and speed until just before I step up to address the ball, and then it's only for the purpose of simplifying things in my mind.  Line and speed to me are not really two separate entities since what you're really talking about in both concepts is slope.  I'm trying to get the feel of the overall area of the green that encompasses the putt, and not just the exact line on which the ball will travel (depending on severity of the slope this is usually maybe a 10 or 20 foot wide alley beginning behind the ball and extending past the hole).  When dealing with a new course I try to get an overall feel for the terrain the green is situated in and then work my way down to the whole green and then smaller area surrounding the path of my putt (that alley concept).

This comes with practice, but on courses which are unfamiliar, you can do little things to get a feel for the greens without doing the Tiger-stalk.  Walk around them as you set your bag down, thinking a lot about how the terrain feels to your feet and how that matches up with what you're actually seeing.  After awhile this will become instinctive as you reach every green and you won't even really notice you're doing it.

As the picture of the putt becomes more concrete in my head, I crouch behind and try to narrow that feel down even more, do a quick visualization of the path I want the ball to take and how fast it will look like it's going, and as I move into the phase of addressing the ball, I pick a spot on that path that's only a few feet in front of my ball.  This is where I separate line and speed.  In my mind I'm already committed to that putt since my reading is finished - I do not do any more reading once I'm over the ball unless I feel something that *really* contradicts what I've already felt/read on the putt.  In my opinion, I can do a lot better job of obtaining the feel and information in the feel-gathering phase and when it comes to the address position I've got to trust what I've read.  Second-guessing at that point results in tentative strokes and terrible putts.

I square the putter and my stance to that point in front of my ball, commit to that line, and then focus entirely on making the picture I saw in my mind of the pace of the putt come to fruition.  From there it's a matter of using sound fundamentals (ie accelerating through the ball and other technical aspects which should be second nature through practice) to bring the mental picture of the putt into reality.

For such a simple question you posed I had to do a lot of reflection of what I actually do on the greens to put it all into words.  In lessons I usually am teaching more about the technical fundamentals and get the feel aspect across by emphasizing the importance of practice, of getting onto as many different types of greens as possible and experiencing all the different slopes and distances so that all of your different senses can train themselves.  The greens I play most often are Langfords, which are a blast if you're as much of a feel putter as I am.  Mike DeVries's greens appear similar in terms of the dramatic slopes and contours, and I look forward to learning and comparing and contrasting them in terms of how they actually putt.

Kyle Harris

Re:How do you read the greens?
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2005, 02:42:41 PM »
Brian,

Golf isn't a verb.

 ;)

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back