[Sean McCue]

Why is it that today's architects no longer design par 70 courses?  Everybody seems to think that if a par of 72 is not built that some how the course is deemed inferior or not worthy of being a great layout.  Is it today's coddled golfers that complain about less than perfect conditions at all times feel that  if they can't be guaranteed at least making 4 pars in their round i.e. easy par fives the course is not good or even great.  Wouldn't you rather play a great par four over a weak par five?  While your at it why don't architects make par fives so that par on the hole is something that is earned and not a foregone conlusion that everybody will make par.  Seems that today's golf course design has fallen into the same trap that the equipment has by taking some of the skill out of the game.

[JakaB]

The icon to the butt boys has nary a par 72 in his portfolio...as of this time last year he had none.   When you mature to 100+ posts you will see that the majority of "great" new courses are in fact non-72's...

[Craig Van Egmond]

John,
          The Rawls course is a par 72. The streak has been broken.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

See Weiskopf's Seven Canyons in Sedona, AZ for a new par 70:

www.sevencanyons.com

[TEPaul]

That a par 72 course could be somehow seen as indicating the course is better or harder or more challenging or more interesting than a par 70 course or even a par 71 course is completely beyond me. Matter of fact, the hardest courses I know are par 70s and always have been---eg Merion East and PVGC.

How some of these perceptions come to be amongst golfers is probably worth a book---some of them make basically no sense in reality.

The perception of a par 72 being more difficult than a par 70 or even par 71 probably just came from the idea that if someone asked you what you shot and you said 2 over par and they then asked you what that is it just sort of sounds like a harder course if you tell them you shot 74 instead of 72!

[Sean McCue]

John. B

What because i have not posted more than 100 times my opinion carries  no weight?  

[JakaB]

No Sean....because after you have posted here over 100 times the "knowledge" of the unconventional will be beat into your skull.   This thread has brought out to the light of day that the IBB (Doak) did not design a par 72 until he was given a featureless sight.....hmmmm....that begs the question.    Is par 72 ideal if the greatest living architect when given the best piece of land builds a par 72 when the land did not dictate par.......only his mind chose par and he chose 72.  Sean...you may have stumbled onto something...keep posting.

[Michael Dugger]

John B.

Maybe when given a featureless piece of land Tom Doak choose to build a par 72 golf course to keep the naysayers at bay, not because it is ideal.

Also....will you explain to me what part of the Texas Tech property was "the best piece of land" as you put it in your last post?

[JakaB]

MM,

It was someone else who called Doak the greatest living architect when given the right piece of land when talking about Pacific Dunes.....I thought it was a funny thing to say and meant no dis-respect to Doak or any other living architect who may or may not be the greatest living architect for any given piece of ground.

[TEPaul]

John B:

Have I told you recently that you're a water-muddying, naysaying, iconoclastic, devil's advocate, pot-stirring, uniformed troglodyte idiot and that you're a slut to boot?

If I have told you that recently please be so kind as to just disregard this post and go on about your business!

I apologize in advance for being so insulting towards you but it appears Tom MacWood is actually out in the East looking at some really great architecture instead of sitting on his duff in Ohio all the time and gratuitously criticizing things without really ever having been there. I haven't had him around to insult for the last few days and I was feeling just a bit "pent-up" myself! Sorry about that!

[tonyt]

John. B

What because i have not posted more than 100 times my opinion carries  no weight?  

Sean,

Not at all. 100 posts will imply you have been around and read a lot too. And that you will have read your questions and the answers to them in many threads, many times over. Formulaic practices in par has been discussed at length.

[Forrest Richardson]

Sean,

Nearly all of my courses could easily be par-70s — especially in today;s world of 480-yard par-4s. At the c. 1928 Adobe (Arizona Biltmore) which opens next month, we renovated and wound up with four par-5s all in the 460 to 510-yard range. I feel it an easy change to make the course a par-70 and simply change the scorecards...but the evil golf professional staff lurks nearby and so, too, the marketing gurus. They will have none of this. It is not politically correct.

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