[Scott Seward]

After reading Frank Hannigan's statement earlier in the week that there are better courses in Westchester county than in all of Texas, and then reading the topic here about the best states for golf, I got to thinking at a smaller level. Which county has the best courses? Living where I do, I am obviously going with Monterey county but I am sure Westchester or Suffolk counties will have their fans.

Obviously, Monterey has the quality, but I would contend it also has some depth when you include Bayonet/Blackhorse or the Preserve.

[Alex_Wyatt]

If Surrey is a county, it wins.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Surrey is a county - but so are Lancashire, Ayrshire, East Lothian, Fife, Kerry.....

[A.G._Crockett]

Three possibles for sheer quantity:

Moore County, NC
Horry County, SC
Brunswick County, NC

[Steve_ Shaffer]

I think Hannigan is right about Westchester for private courses only vs. Texas.
For public access golf, I would pick Maricopa County, AZ, home of the Phoenix/Scottsdale area wealth of public/resort courses. The quality and quantity of the courses is way up there.
For private courses, I would pick from Monterey, CA, Suffolk County, NY, Westchester County, NY and Montgomery County, PA(assuming Merion is located there which I'm not so certain even though I'm a life long resident of the area- it has an address in Ardmore, which is in Montgomery County but is geographically south of Haverford Avenue which may be the dividing line with Delaware County)
For overall, Westchester,Suffolk and Montgomery fall way short on public quality and quantity. So, perhaps, Monterey, CA comes out on top; however Maricopa does have some fine private courses to go along with their publics.

Steve

[mike_malone]

 Merion=DELCO

[Brian_Gracely]

Westchester would seem to be in the same ballpark for private clubs as Oakland County in Michigan (North of Detroit).  Oakland Hills (South & North), Indianwood (Old), Franklin Hills (Ross), Plum Hollow, Birmingham CC, Bloomfield Hills CC, Knollwood (Colt/Alison).

[Bill_McBride]

San Francisco County is pretty stout, with SFGC, Olympic 36 and Lake Merced.  Plus Harding Park for muni play.

[Paul_Turner]

One of the counties of Scotland or England would likely win this one.  I can't decide.  Berkshire would be up there (isn't Swinley in Berks?).  

Dorset is a "hidden gem" county.   Need to get to know some of the lesser known courses in Kent.

Mark

Which county is the weakest in England?  My home county of Bedfordshire gets my vote....nothing outstanding at all:  even Woburn is just across the border in Bucks.

[Gerry B]

Westchester and Suffolk have their fair share but cannot rule out a formidable lineup in Nassau county as well. The number of great Classic "Old School" courses in these 3 counties is staggering.

Nassau County's notable contributions include:

Bethpage Black and a couple of other great ones in the complex
Creek Club
Piping Rock
Deepdale
Engineers
Garden City
Meadowbrook
Nassau
Eisenhower
Old Westbury
Brookville
Inwood
Fresh Meadow


Suffolk's premier lineup:

Shinnecock
NGLA
Maidstone
Southampton
Friars Head
Atlantic
The Bridge
Easthampton
Westhampton
Long Island National
Montauk Downs
Tall Grass
and the next first round draft pick Sebonac  


Westchester's starting Lineup:

Winged Foot West
Winged Foot East
Quaker Ridge
St Andrews
Westchester -West
Westchester - South
Apawamis
Arsdsley
Century
Knollwood
Metropolis
Siwanoy
Sleepy Hollow
Wykagyl
Bedford
Blind Brook
Trump National
Hudson National
Fenway
Pelham
Scarsdale
Sunningdale
Whippoorwill

IMHO Suffolk would win for greater number of top ranked courses - ie top 5 vs top 5

Westchester is like the New England Patriots and the Detroit Pistons -fewer superstars but a very deep roster.

Hard to argue with the quintet of Shinnecock / NGLA / Maidstone / Friars Head / and pick one from the list above to round out the lineup.

The Nassau starting 5  - Bethpage Black / Garden City / Piping Rock / Creek / Deepdale is pretty formidable as well.

As I do not reside in NY area - which LI county lays claim to Fishers Island - or is it the Monaco of the eastern seaboard?

could be the deciding factor

 

[Jack_Marr]

Just from what I know,
Kerry:
Ballybunion
Waterville
Dooks
Killarney
Tralee

Dublin:
Portmarnock
Portmarnock HOtel GL
The Island
Royal Dublin
Castle GC
Grange GC
Hermitage GC
Luttrellstown Castle
St Anne's GC
St Margret's GC

Then there's Donegal and Wicklow....

Obviously, I don't know how Irish counties compare iwth the counties world wide in terms of size etc, but hese are pretty strong.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Paul,  There's a challenge!  England's weakest county.  Bedfordshire is certainly a candidate.  Cambridge, Northants, Essex, Worcestershire, Hereford and Shropshire may also be worthy of consideration.  

Redeeming features:

Beds - Dunstable Downs, John O'Gaunt
Cambridge - Gog Magog, Peterborough Milton
Northants - Northamptonshire County
Essex - Orsett, Thorndon Park (but I don't know the county very well)
Worcestershire - Blackwell, The Worecstershire
Hereford - Ross-on-Wye, Kington
Shropshire - Llanymynech, Church Stretton, Ludlow.

I think you're right, Bedfordshire gets the nod.

[wsmorrison]

Gerry B,

Don't forget to add Flynn's Pocantico Hills course in Tarrytown to the Westchester course list.  It may be a bit undersized at 5673 yards, but it is a test of golf none the less, an innovative design with some reversibility, plenty of courses within a course--designed so that a tee can play to different holes and you can play different routing iterations, and sits on some of the most beautiful land and on the most magnificent estate in the country.  Interestingly, it does not have fairway height, secondary rough, nor primary rough.  The entire course is kept at the height of the first cut of rough.  This is a golf course at an estate and one mandate was that it not stand out so much as a golf course.  This makes the course play quite a bit longer.  What do people think about this sort of grass height maintenance practice?

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Wayne,

I love the idea of a course that can be played in a variety of routings.  At my home course, Conwy, they used to play a 9-hole Safari competition shortly after Xmas, say, from the 3rd tee to the 16th green, 7th tee to the 12th green and so on (I don't remember the exact routing).  I thought I knew every blade of grass, every prickly thorn of gorse and every grain of sand on the course (I played rather more in those days) - I did not.  It was hugely enjoyable and quite an eye-opener into the architectural potential of the site.   The only club I know of which has a completely different winter routing from summer is Northumberland (within the racecourse at Newcastle-upon-Tyne). Sadly, I have not played both courses to be able to compare.

[Mike_Trenham]

What do people think about this sort of grass height maintenance practice?

This is an interesting question.  Some freinds of mine think this is the solution to the troubles of the game.  1) maintenance costs decline dramatically with out closely mowed fairways 2) for the best players in the game their approach shots just got a lot harder to spin into hard and fast greens 3) for the lesser player the ball sits up nicely so that they can hit a wood or long iron easily.

BTW a good friend of mine was on the crew for the 1971 US Open at Merion and he maintains that their fairways were the lenght of a first cut today!  The grass in our first cuts today stand up more vs. laying down and being grainy.

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

"As I do not reside in NY area - which LI county lays claim to Fishers Island - or is it the Monaco of the eastern seaboard?"

Fishers Island is part of Southold, NY and therefore is in Suffolk County.

Having grown up in Westchester, I would give the nod to Suffolk for the top 5-7 but for overall depth I would have to go with Westchester.

[Gerry B]

Geoffrey: Thanks for the info as I mentioned in my thread as Fishers is in Suffolk it wins as far as top 5-7

I agree with the depth of Westchester overall - many great ones and I did not have the time or energy to list them all - too many -aplogies if I miessed someone's hidden fave.

If one counted how many courses are within 120 miles of midtown Manhattan - there cannot be any place on earth that even comes close.

Being from Canada -(but did reside for a few years about a mile from Winged Foot and Quaker Ridge)  -can someone provide a breakdown of top courses in New Jersey by county -there has to be some impressive ones given the number of good to great courses in that state in such towns as Springfield,Bernardsville,Clementon,Ridgewood, Northfield, Plainfield,Deal,Alpine,Clifton,Jamesburg,The Oranges,Paramus,Essex,Tenafly,etc.  

While we are at it would also be interested in a breakdown of Chicagoland courses by county - ie what counties contain such notable towns as Wheaton, Olympia Fields, Lake Bluff, Skokie, Glencoe,Medinah, Lake Forest, Hawthorn Woods,Oak Brook,Lemont,etc.  

[TEPaul]

Without a single scintilla of a doubt the best county for golf in the world is Duval County Florida!!

Why? Because I think that's where that hidden-gem of ALL-UNIVERSE gems is----Fernindina Beach Municipal!!

[SPDB]

If one counted how many courses are within 120 miles of midtown Manhattan - there cannot be any place on earth that even comes close.
   

Pretty big radius, Gerry. That would also include Merion, Pine Valley, Aronomink, Huntingdon Val., et al. Are you ready to claim those courses for NY? I am.

[Kenny Lee Puckett]

Live in Fairfield County, CT.

Vote for Suffolk County, NY due to the Power of

SHGC
NGLA
Maidstone
Friar's Head
Fisher's Island
Westhampton
Atlantic

And Montauk Downs.

Westchester, NY is #2 given:

WFW
WFE - Great showing in the AM Qualifying - Love #17
Quaker Ridge
Westchester W
Hudson Nat'l

And Sleepy.

Nassau #3 with

My domicile can't compare:

Fairfield
Stanwich
Round Hill
Woodway
Wee Burn

Oh well...

JWK

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

Gerry,

"If one counted how many courses are within 120 miles of midtown Manhattan - there cannot be any place on earth that even comes close."

The only knock against Westchester (and the greater NY Area to a much lesser extent) is the dearth of quality public golf courses.  I think this should factored into the "best" county for golf since the overwhelming majority of its residents will never have the opportunity to play the routings we have discussed.  I think the "best" county for golf should have a nice balance between the public/private or at the very least 2-3 quality options for the public to play....

Here is the roster of public courses is Westchester:
Maple Moor (the course I grew up playing)
Saxon Woods
Lake Isle
Sprain Lake
Dunwoodie
Mohansic
Hudson Hills

Far cry from the Winged Foots and Fenways.  The last course is a new course that thankfully just opened.  I have never played Lake Isle but the county owned courses are characterized by average to below average routings (with the possible exception of the Tillie design at Saxon Woods), 5+ hour rounds and historically terrible conditioning but rumors are that it is getting much better.  I hope that others on this board can confirm about the conditioning.

I would usually end up migrating north to Richter Park (Danbury, CT) or making the 1 hour trip east to Bethpage.

[Doug Braunsdorf]

If one counted how many courses are within 120 miles of midtown Manhattan - there cannot be any place on earth that even comes close.
   

Pretty big radius, Gerry. That would also include Merion, Pine Valley, Aronomink, Huntingdon Val., et al. Are you ready to claim those courses for NY? I am.

Ahhh, here we go again, getting those Philadelphians all riled up...  

[Jack_Marr]

What about all the courses within 120 miles of Glasgow?

[Gerry B]

SBDB:

That is exactly why i said 120 miles -  yes the south jersey /  philly courses would be included - that is why IMHO a first round knockout  - include Merion, Pine Valley and some of NJ'S finest and the final score is 6-1 / 6-1 / 6-1 in straight sets

[ForkaB]

I would nominate Greater Dumfries in Scotland.  Pursuant to the 120-mile rule, a partial list of the courses in that area would include:

Royal Portrush
Royal County Down
Royal Lytham St. Annes
Royal Birkdale
Royal Liverpool
Ganton
Turnberry
Prestwick
Troon
Loch Lomond
Machrihanish
Western Gailes
Muirfield
North Berwick
The Old Course
The New Course
Carnoustie

Against this lineup I don't see NY/Philly getting a game, much less a set.

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