[Steve Lapper]

My 5 favorites:

1) Winged Foot West
2) San Francisco
3) Somerset Hills
4) Quaker Ridge
5) Fenway

Not including the Black due to attribution issues!

[Gene Greco]

Bethpage Black
Winged Foot West
San Francisco Golf Club
Fenway
Quaker Ridge

(Need to play Five Farms)

[John_Lovito]

My list would be:

Winged Foot West
SFGC
Quaker Ridge
Somerset
Baltusrol

A few years ago I played nine holes at Fenway in miserable weather.  I suspect after I see all 18 it will replace Baltusrol.

[SPDB]

WFW
SFGC
BPB
QR
Newport - only b/c we need the variety (although it makes it in its own right)

illustrates why i think tillie is the finest american architect.

[GeoffreyC]

Given that we are asked for favorites, my list would be

Bethpage Black
Fenway
SFGC
Winged Foot West (have not seen without the trees)
Quaker Ridge

WFE
Five Farms
Rockaway Hunting Club

Steve- including BB because only Tillinghast could have done that routing and bunkering. I'll grant you the greens are in question  

[Scott_Burroughs]

Sean,

BPB?  Does that mean you finally got to "slum it" on L.I. and play it?  


Oh, and amongst the 3 I've played:

Bethpage (Black)
Baltusrol (Lower)
Elmira CC  (can anyone else claim to have played this one? - and supposedly Tillie did a "reconstruction" here, not original design)

[SPDB]

I think this should be extended to include top 10. In which case:

WFW
SFGC
BPB
QR
Newport
Fenway
Baltusrol
BCC
RHC
Philly Cricket

[Scott_Burroughs]

Sean,

Baltusrol Lower or Upper?  According to much of the membership, this is a valid question.

[Steve Lapper]

Geoff,

    I disappointed you didn't put Fenway ahead

    I agree the routing and bunkering design was likely AW's....if I had put it it in...it would be #2

[SPDB]

Scotty -
Lower, i enjoy cross hazards too much to prefer the upper.
Which, coincidentally, is why I rate Newport higher than others would. I hate it when my vision is uninterrupted by bunkers.

[Wayne Freeman]

It certainly has been a privilege to play many of Tillie's greats-  of the best known I have played my list would be:
       Bethpage Black
       Winged Foot
       SFCC
       Baltusrol
       Quaker Ridge      

 I also think that Bethpage Red is terrific. I'm going to try to play Fenway and Rockaway this fall and am  looking forward to it.

[Mike_Golden]

Bethpage Black
Bethpage Black
SFGC, Bethpage Red (tie)
Bethpage Blue

Of course, these are the only Tillie's I've played except for a couple of courses he consulted for in the 30's so I have a limited perspective.  I actually see many similarities between SFGC and the Red

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

How can Ridgewood be neglected?   Glad to see some fellow Red course admirers.  I have stated for years that if the Black did not exist people would rave about the Red.

[Jim Franklin]

1. SFGC
2. WFW
3. BCC (I may be a homer)
4. BPB
5. Philly Cricket

[Steve Lapper]

How can Ridgewood be neglected?   Glad to see some fellow Red course admirers.  I have stated for years that if the Black did not exist people would rave about the Red.

RMD:

     Ridgewood should hardly feel neglected. It would, I suspect make anyones top ten all AWT list, albeit behind at least 7-8 others that have nearly unanimously made the above posts.

[GeoffreyC]

Steve

I learned what great architecture was about at BB and played it a good 60 times. It will always have a special place in my golfing memories. Fenway is my newer "discovery" and current attraction.

Tillie really does deserve a top 10 in which case I would absolutely add

Ridgewood
Phil. Cricket
Bethpage Red
Baltusrol

to my list of the Tillinghast courses I enjoy.  Rockaway Hunting is up high on my personal list of his courses because of the fun factor as well as the unique factor (I need to see Newport as well to see his broad range of talents in building different styles of courses).  RHC has holes like 6-9, 13-15 that are fantastic and absolutely make golf such a thrill.

[Phil_the_Author]

Mike,

You list Bethpage Blue as a Tillinghast course. Where the Blue was designed by him and the 1st course opened in 1935, the Blue course that is at Bethpage today is not the same one.

In the 50s the Yellow course was created. In order to do this, the Blue course was redesigned and changed. Today there are only about 5-6 holes and parts of holes on the Blue course that were Tilly's and the same number on the yellow.

The good news is that the most important hole in the entire complex of Bethpage (including the Black) was left untouched. This hole, the original 5th of the Blue & the current 12th of the Yellow answers the question of attribution for those such as Steve. It is one of several smoking gun proofs that have now been discovered. There can no longer be any denying Tillinghast as the architect of Bethpage.

In the April 1935 issue of the Farmingdale Post, in describing the new Blue Course that would be opened for play the next day, a hole-by-hole description was given. The fifth hole was given a name. It was called "The Famous REEF Hole."

Tilly wrote an article in 1926 of a hole design that he wanted to build that he called a "REEF Hole." He built what had always been assumed to be the one & only example of this hole type at Newport. Now we know that there is another.

Of all the holes at Bethpage, this is the only hole that was ever officially given a name. I am greatly excited after attending a meeting at Bethpage two weeks ago where the idea of restoring the REEF Hole and also putting a sign at the tee to explain its significance to Bethpage & the architecture of golf, was discussed. The plans to do so are now moving forward.

By the way, I think that the Tillinghast course that gets the least respect is Fresh Meadows. There are a number of great courses that have gone the way of development such as Lido and the others mentioned on GCA. No one ever seems to remember this course despite it hosting the championships that it did.

[SPDB]

Philip -
Although I can't be sure, I think the reason why Fresh Meadow gets so little respect as a Tillinghast course is because it was designed by Herbert Alison.  

[Tommy Williamsen]

WFW

[Tommy Williamsen]

WFW
SFGC
SOMERSET HILLS

[Tommy Williamsen]

WFW
SFGC
BALTUSROL UPPER
SOMERSET HILLS
QUAKER RIDGE

[Phil_the_Author]

SPDP,

I can understand your confusion as the current Fresh Meadows may be the product of Mr. Herbert Allison, but the Fresh Meadows Country Club that hosted the 1932 U.S. Open won by Gene Sarazen was designed by Tilly. Unfortunately it is no more, having been developed into homes, stores, etc...

In the book, The PGA by Herb Graffis, in the chapter titled "28 holes in 100 strokes," we read, "Fresh Meadow was not a great golf course, but it was a tough one. Like nearly all the courses designed by A.W. Tillinghast... The greens I knew from six years practicing on them..." This was written by the winner of that open, Gene Sarazen.

What is of great interest is the next sentence about the greens, "Uniformly flat and unsubtle, you could get down in two on them regardless of the length of your approach putt." For all who doubt that that the greens at Bethpage were not done by Tilly because they have been described this way, it shows that he had created greens of this type before.    

[GeoffreyC]

Phil

I'm indeed surprised by your finding concerning the greens at Fresh Meadows.  I've always been really impressed by the Tillinghast greens especially at places like Winged Foot, Fenway, Five Farms and SFGC.

Do you think that his building greens that are "Uniformly flat and unsubtle, you could get down in two on them regardless of the length of your approach putt." is a positive feature that enhances his reputation?  I would think of this as a negative and certainly not in keeping with his enduring designs nor those of his fellow architects of the Golfden Age.

[Phil_the_Author]

Geoff,

No, not at all!

My point in mentioning it was to hearken back to those who claim that Tilly did not design the Bethpage greens because of how flat they are. This is a point I also disagree with as there is great subtlety in the greens and this was shown during the Open. The Fresh Meadows course is an example of his designing greens that were less of a challenge than others of his design.

My point was one of showing that one of the singular aspects of a Tillinghast design is that there may be none. He used bunkering, fairway widths and angles, green locations and types, and any & all other features that have been designed into golf courses. Where many have similarities, a good number do not. That is the true genius of Tillinghast.

[SPDB]

Phil -
Far from confused, I assumed that you were referring to the NLE, but I never miss a chance to get a joke in.

Fresh Meadow is simply another of the many NLE that don't get a lot of press, e.g. Deepdale, Oneck, etc. Nor do I think it is strange that it doesn't get talked about as much as Lido, given the engineering marvels that attended to that course's construction. Fresh Meadow in undistinguishable among the many similar courses in the region that met the same fate, the same can't be said for Lido.

Have you seen photos of the old Fresh Meadow? What is about them that makes you think it should be more talked-about?

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()