[A_Clay_Man]

Langford and Moreau's Lawsonia had the most considerate exit strategies I had ever noticed on a golf course. Ramps leading to the next tee can be found on just about everyone of those maginifciantly constructed green complexes. They help guide and ease the golfer through his journey, virgin or vet. Assisting in pace of play, this "little thing" shows careful consideration, But with all good ideas and what appears
to be keeping withi the tradition of gca, sometimes breaking the rules is justified.

Here's an example I have mentioned before.
Can you tell me why Pete Dye designed this hole with a green front exit only?

[SPDB]

Adam -
Check out this entry and exit. makes sense if you're walking, but look at how far the drive is if you are carting it. Another reason why walking is better.

[Rick Shefchik]

Adam -- You have put your finger on an aspect of golf course architecture that I rarely see mentioned, or even think about myself; but now that you mention it, I think exit points on greens are a very large part of a pleasurable -- or aggravating -- experience on a golf course.

We've all spent too much time leaning on our clubs while the group ahead of us finished putting, then shuffled back to the front of the green where they left their carts, because that's the shortest distance to the next tee.

A little thing, maybe, but my idea of a perfect course would lead golfers to the back of the green when they were finished putting, or at the very least off to one side or the other -- and it would be constructed in such a way that even the most oblivious and self-absorbed players would not leave their carts or bags on the wrong side of the green.

[Robin_Hiseman]

This is something I think about a lot in my own design work, especially here in the UK where most of us still walk or pull a trolley.  I try to avoid placing bunkers across the natural desire line from the green to the next tee, or concentrating the foot traffic with strong grades.

[A_Clay_Man]

Robin-Welcome aboard. I've enjoyed reading your virgin post.

The amazing thing about Lawsonia's exits are they are clearly ramps, often between some of the cavernous bunkers. But mostly because they did construct the greens "up" they ease the glide down.



While this photo is a complete fraud (the next tee is to the left) it does show what my mind remembers from other holes.



A little piece of the ramp on the seventh hole is visible. The hollow is on both sides of the ramp.

[Joe Hancock]

I think it was the 8th at Barona that had a front-only exit strategy. I didn't take a picture of it.

Joe

[RJ_Daley]

ADam, I think that a large part of finding those ramps you speak of, is due to the highly pushed up and manufactured greens.  You find many of the ramps you refer to at Lawsonia, and you also find them in abundance at Seth Raynor courses.  Yeaman's Hall has some very interesting walk ramps at the corners of some of its square greens.  Of course this leads to concentrated foot traffic, not only rendering the areas sparse in turf, but the soil compacts as well.  

[RJ_Daley]

Adam, here are Seth Raynor's Yeamans Hall and CCof Charleston.  See how much they have in common with Lawsonia...
3tee Yeamans

walk-off 3 green

3 green walk off CCofC

13 walk off CCofC

17 walk off CCofC

[Tom_Doak]

RJ:  As George Bahto would tell you, a lot of Raynor's "short" par-3 holes such as the third at Yeamans Hall were in fact TOTALLY SURROUNDED by sand in their original version, with no walk-offs at all.

I can't remember if Yeamans Hall was that way originally or not.  But I know that the walk-off you illustrated there was built by the superintendent, not really part of the original design.

[A_Clay_Man]

No one has speculated on my initial question. Notice the right side of the first picture. See the meandering creek? It has the wooden wall and snakes behind the green too. Looking closely at the willow tree, just to the left, you can make out the Flat Car bridge. The distance to link the rear of the green back to the cart path that goes up the hill top "Mercy" is a short one. Perhaps less than 20'. But the golfer is directed all the way back to the front of the green to get to the next hole. Walker or rider.

It took about three rounds for me to come to conclusion that Pete forced us to walk that direction so we could soak up the area that is to the rightside of the photo. It's such a serene natural little meadow-like ecosystem, complete with meandering creek that peaceful doesn't describe how one feels as they immerse their soul into the surrounds.

In other words, the area is so special, it justifies a loss in pace consideration.

Or am I all wet?

[Steve Lang]

 

Is not the entrance/exit ramp also for maintennace equipment?

[A_Clay_Man]

Seve- It's possible that the 7th hole's ramp is needed for the maintenance equipt., But most of the green fronts are opened. The sourse profile here has some great looks, much better than Lawsonia's own website.

[Tyler Kearns]

RJ,

    The walk-off areas you shown in the pictures you provided are very often overlooked in golf course design. When considering such areas, it is a good idea to think about multiple exit points. Examining the pictures closely, there does seem to be a lot of wear & tear at the walk-off areas, creating playability and maintenance issues due to the high traffic these areas recieve.
     To the original post regarding Pete Dye's front exit, that is an annoying feature. It will slow play, because players will remain in reach of the proceeding group for a longer period of time. It also tends to interupt the flow of the routing, which may be a minor quibble regarding the course architecture, but not the golfing experience.

Tyler Kearns

[Bob_Huntley]

Adam,

Come to think of it, I do believe that Seth Raynor's original layout of his Dunes Course at MPCC had seventeen greens from which you exited at the rear. The tees were not far away either.  

[A_Clay_Man]

Dick, Thanks for posting those raynor greens. It is amazing the similarity.

Bob, The dunes, continues to be my one and only miss on the peninsula. Can you tell me if Rees left anything like the pics Dick posted?

Tyler, I believe your pace of play and flow of routing was how I first viewed the architecture. But, it being such a rookie mistake, I came to realize Pete, had to have a reason. The serenity of this one little area takes the brain to Eden, seriously.

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