[Phil McDade]

Brad Tufts' thread on his Maine trip, and other threads on places like Yale, often highlight how paved cartpaths can aesthetically mar the look of a hole and its appeal, and even come into play strategically.

My question -- why paved cart paths? Is it strictly a long-term maintenance issue? Wouldn't some kind of packed soil/crushed rock/gravel table work nearly as well, and be somewhat more aesthetically pleasing to the eye? I've played plenty of golf courses -- old and new -- where lots of money has obviously been spent on design, bunkers, green complexes and the like, and then there's an ugly paved cartpath, seemingly put in place with little thought as to its look for the hole or even how it might come into play.

This isn't a rant against cart paths -- I don't like them, generally, but acknowledge courses will put them in for a host of reasons. My question is -- can't someone put more thought into them?

[Steve Lapper]

Expense of construction, materials and abor on the build out side along with maintenance, associated labor and smoothness of "ride" all are the predominant factors for pavement over crushed stone/gravel.

Resistance to flooding (rutting & washouts) and drought (dust. spreading of stones, etc) are also another major factor.


Only those course developers/owners with unlimited budgets or significant concern over the "look" care enough to resist asphalt/concrete.

[JohnV]

Why not paint or dye them green so they aren't so obvious?

Shirley Temple had a concrete front yard that was painted green instead of grass in the 1960s at her house on the SF Peninsula.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Phil
Not photos of Shirley Temple's lawn, but here are some coated asphalt surfaces:

Here's a familiar bridge that has a coated path



If the architect can effectively conceal the path from view then does it matter what material they use?

[A.G._Crockett]

I know that part of Kris Spence's work at Cape Fear CC in Wilmington, NC was to remove cartpaths completely, except in select areas mostly around tees and greens.  I haven't seen it yet, but at a private club where the number of walker is relatively high, it ought to work well.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Phil McDade,

Many cart paths are also used by the maintainance and/or construction equipment, hence they must be able to support weighty vehicles.

As Steve Lapper indicated, washouts are a constant problem.

In many cases opposing traffic must be accomodated, along with heavy traffic, and for those needs, concrete is usually a prefered material.

My biggest complaint is how little thought is given to properly routing and hiding cart paths, which have become a necessary evil at some clubs.

Irrespective of the surface,

[Phil McDade]

Jim:

I've always liked the look of the Augusta National bridges, particularly the stonework, which I've always thought was an homage to TOC and the Swilcan bridge. The green path on them is obviously artificial, but fits in with the rest of the greenery there, and the bridges rarely come into play, from what I've seen.

I'd say the material is secondary to the location, some of which -- both on threads posted here on GCA and in my own playing -- just sort of boggle the mind, and appear as afterthoughts.

For all the of the money that's gone into turfgrass research, golf course construction, and the like (much of it aimed, I'd argue, as much toward aesthetics as playability and ideal conditions), I'm surprised that many golf clubs still resort to ugly and ancient technology (pavement) to move players around. I would've thought someone could come up with a surface that deals with the washout issues -- admittedly a concern -- and still looks nicer than pavement.

[peter_p]

    Inablility to think outside the box. Concrete or asphalt were the two choices available when we started to build cart paths. It is simpler to sell.
    Similarly, golf carts are essentially the same size as they were in the 50s and 60s, both in seat size and tire size. If they had larger tires, maybe we wouldn't need as many cart paths.  

[Jason Blasberg]

Given the undulating terrain at our club we have asphault in run off areas to curtail erosion but we've just finished converting all the rest to sand.  I'd say we removed about 40% of the asphault and most of it now is behind a few greens and mostly out of sight.  

[Gary_Mahanay]

Jason,

Aren't the sand cart paths real dusty?  Aren't the entry and exit points to the asphalt worn down?

[Tom Forsythe]

Sand or gravel paths tend to get wider over the years from people trying to avoid puddles, potholes or the aggregate just being pushed out to the sides of the paths from tire traffic. Rain and erosion can be a maintenance headache on non paved cartpaths. The dust is also a major pain in a dry season.  Asphalt paths are not maintenance free and require regular edging but in the long run are a better option for golf cart and maintenance vehicle traffic.  

[Jason Blasberg]

Gary:

The sand is new so they're not dusty yet nor are the entrance points worn.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Peter Pittock,

You bring up an interesting point.

While the interiors of carts have narrowed a little, noone, over all of these years, has come up with a wider, lower pressure tire.

That single alteration would improve turf conditions at many courses, and probably eliminate cart paths in numerous areas.

Why do you think this hasn't been done ?
Could it be the instability of the cart when transitioning from paths to grass or vice versa ?

[peter_p]

Patrick,
What? They've narrowed the interior? As a nation we are expanding, and they have the galfummery to do this?

They probably have not been asked to redesign a golf cart with wider tires. I've seen maintenance vehicles with wide tires zoom all over the place without creating damage.
Storage space in existing cart barns? New suspensions? Costs of retooling the manufacturing plant?

I agree, it would eliminate the need for many cart paths. But we need them for the beverage carts!

[Jim_Kennedy]

Pat,
The width of carts from tire to tire is right around 47". Increase this, even negligibly, and you can't transport them side by side using existing trailers.
Doing it to the 'inside' framework, suspension, rear end, etc., would require a lot of re-tooling.  

There's a grass parking lot at a mall in Farmington, Ct. that uses an underground network of corrugated plastic pipes. I don't recall their exact length, but they are placed vertically in a honeycomb pattern, filled with stone, gravel/sand?, then topsoil/seed or sod is placed over the top. They use the lot for overflow during peak shopping seasons. I don't think it would work on a golf course as it's expensive, impossible for a cart to follow without some outline, and you'd still get some disruption of the surface if carts were driven over it in wet weather. It might be more effective if used to manage wear and tear in areas where carts enter or exit existing paved carts.

At Hotchkiss we used to use a very hard rubber matting that had a honeycomb pattern, similar to stuff you might see on a shower stall floor. It was colored green, was visible, and grass grew between the 'cells'. It was effective but eventually it melded into the surrounding grasses. We only used it on level areas as it could be slippery on hills.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jim & Peter,

Golf carts with wider, lower pressure tires would seem to be a great product, easily introduced and sold to clubs, especially since they'd probably get the superintendents blessings and preference over existing carts.

As to transportation and width, do you recall how the old CJ-7 jeeps, which had a high center of gravity, thus unstable, were retooled with extended axle adapters that allowed for wider tires which resulted in a lower center of gravity.

The same technology could be employed on golf carts.

Just get axle etenders and wider balloon tires that take lower pressure, but are of the same height.

For new models, I"m sure the manufacturers could make these factory ready over the next few years.

I'm surprised this hasn't been done yet.

[Joe Perches]

Golf carts with wider, lower pressure tires would seem to be a great product, easily introduced and sold to clubs, especially since they'd probably get the superintendents blessings and preference over existing carts.

I believe a pressure reduction from 20psi to 15 or so wouldn't make much of a difference in wear on the course.  Perhaps a better, umm, path would be to reduce the wheel spin at start and wheel lock at stop.  Better electronics would help.  Might reduce whiplash too.  Unfortunately, better traction control won't stop the damage that carts cause in wet conditions.

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