[David Staebler]

Golf Journal has just included the 13th hole at Pawley's Plantation in its "A Great Golf Hole" series.  Instead of being a great hole, it is on my list of the top ten worst holes in golf.  How good is a hole in which at least three out of every four strokes from the tee wind up in the water hazard and a ball drop is used thereafter for players to chip onto the green.  The maximum length of the hole is 145 yards but it is usually played from 100 yards or less to a penninsula green with water to the front, left and behind.  On a clam day the wind blows 20 miles an hour and the green is at most 20 paces deep.  The effective landing area to keep a ball on the green is about 15 yards wide and 10 yards deep.  There is no bail out either.  To the right of the green are a few bunkers and the adjoining 16th green.  The depth of the area where the bunkers are is shallower than the putting green and playing onto the the 16th green would leave a 30 to 50 yard shot back to the penninsula after endangering play on that hole and taking a wrong putting green drop.  Does this sound like a great hole?Pawley's has 17 solid holes.  1 through 12 then 14 through 18.  For Golf Journal to feature the 13th is a failure to understand what good design is.  Just because everyone playing it makes double bogie and loses a ball doesn't mean it's a great hole. In the case or this hole it means the design requires a shot from the tee that most golfers are not capable of playing.  If that is great design then I'm not interested.

[Ran Morrissett]

The Great Golf Hole was a well written feature of Golf Journal through the 1960s, 1970s and early 1980s. People like Frank Hannigan, etc made significant contributiuons. Overseas holes such as the 2nd at Carnoustie were even featured. However, of late, everything has turned toward politically correctness, including the Great Golf Holes. As the USGA strives for geographic balance, the quality of the holes featured has dropped. This is a pity as it certainly can be a disservice to the golfing public. Your case in point on the 13th is the perfect example: if the USGA sets the expectation that such design is laudable, where does that leave us? Yuk.In far too many cases today, they need to rename it "Nice Golf Holes" - it would be more accurate. Regardless, the 13th at Pawley should never be featured.

[it doesn't matter]

I completely agree with staebler & ran.  I just want to know the handicaps of the guys that write up "a great golf hole".  it is a joke in my book.  Quite frankly it is embarrassing for me to read anymore.

[Tom T.]

It has been common in recent years that non-golfers have selected and written pieces for the USGA's "A Great Golf Hole".  Gone are the days that some of the truly great holes on well known courses are showcased.  Apparantly the magazine's editor favors describing mediocre holes on unknown courses to prove a point: he controls editorial content.  Too bad for those of us who would like to see and have described the pleasures of a great golf hole.

[Ted_Sturges]

Very good points.  The USGA has whiffed this column for an extended period of time.  I have an idea which I think would be interesting.  I challenge David, Ran, et al (for that matter, anyone interested in this), to submit a candidate for "a great golf hole" under this post, and write up your description of why it qualifies.  I would suggest trying to select holes that most of us would be familiar with, rather than an obscure work, to promote debate.  I challenge Ran to pick a hole from the TPC at Sawgrass as one of his candidates, as he's always singing the praises of the place.  I'd like to read your review of one of their "great golf holes".I look forward to reading as many reviews as this distinguished panel would submit.

[John Morrissett]

Ted:What do you mean Ran is always singing the praises of TPC - Sawgrass?  I have to break a finger of his before he will admit it is a decent course.  Take a look at our write-up of the course on this web site.In a momemt of clarity, the 8th hole at Walnut Lane was featured a couple of years ago.  

[Ted_Sturges]

John,I just re-read the write up on TPC at Sawgrass.  It seems to me that the review is much more positive than negative.  I don't have Ran's World rankings handy, but I can recall his ranking of this course as quite high.  When I questioned him about this he defended his position.  He has given me the impression that he is a definite fan of the place.

[John Morrissett]

Ted:The TPC write-up is positive because I wrote it (and like the course).  I've been slowly working on Ran to move it up -- it's come up about five spots each year for a while.  Overall, the course has just gotten a bad rap in the anti-Pete Dye backlash.  It's much better in person than it comes across on TV.  

[Ran Morrissett]

Ted/John,Please stop squabbling.Ted, John is the champion of TPC in our household. While Dye gave the PGA exactly what they wished for, I nonetheless think it would be a poor member's course. I would not want to play the 17th everyday, it's as simple as that. Give me Yeamans hall any day.Also, take the 12th hole. To me, not much strategy for such a short hole, plus it looks mogule-y and contrived. Dye could have created the mirror image of 10 at Riviera (ie a hole of great  interest/variety that could be played several ways (the 11th at TPC is a another perfect illustration of multiple ways to play a hole)). John, you may have bullied (or bored) me into placing TPC 10-15 spots too high over time. I need to re-access. The best way to do that would be a return visit....John, perhaps you would like to explain to Ted why you played one round at TPC from the red tees?

[Ted_Sturges]

John,How about you select one of TPC's holes for a "great golf hole" write up for us?  I greatly respect your opinion and I need to better understand why you rate this course so high.

[John Morrissett]

Ted--I'd be happy to do so, but first: have you played the course?John

[John Morrissett]

Ted--I'd be happy to do so, but first: have you played the course?John

[Ted_Sturges]

John,I have 3 rounds in there.  Actually made a 2 on the 13th the first time I played it.  I look forward to reading your comments.Ted

[Ted_Sturges]

John,I meant to say I made a 2 on the short par 4 12th hole.  Not that you wouldn't be impressed if I simply made a birdie, but...

[JohnV]

I have not played the Stadium course, but I did spend a week walking around it at lunch while at Rules Seminar down there.  The course was empty as it was the week before the TPC and it was closed so got to look at a lot of it.  I thought that #16 was an excellent hole in that it was a great par 4.5 that still required you to play a very good shot if you decided to layup.Speaking of par 4.5s and the USGA Great Golf Holes, in my biased opinion, I thought they made a great choice a few years back in choosing #14 at Witch Hollow.

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