[Ran Morrissett]

Driving home last night, and feeling a bit low on protein, I stopped in Mid Pines for a cleansing Guiness.

As the protein started to circulate amongst my brain cell(s), I started thinking what a neat course Mid Pines remains to this day. Save for the 9th and 14th greens and a creek that branched into the 3rd fairway from the 5th hole, the course is pure Ross.

And yet, on a good driving day, the good golfer rarely has to hit any long or even mid iron clubs into the greens. This is a shame as technology has robbed this course of the variety that it once certainly possessed.

Then I starting thinking back to a round with Rick Holland and Ralph Livingston at The Dunes in Michigan. Ralph (web site:www.hichorygolf.com) let us hit some of his clubs.

As I recall,  it seems like the loss in distance on well struck shots is ~ 10% - i.e. an 8 iron goes 130 as opposed to 140 something. Better yet, the poorly hit shots ended up with poor results, a crucial attribute if golf is meant to remain a game.

I think of all my genuine favorite courses - Swinley, St. Enodoc, West Sussex, Eastward Ho!, Jasper Park, Macrihanish, Shoreacres, Lawsonia, Maidstone - and it just seems like hickory shafts makes them all the better/more fun.

What is the down side to playing with hickory? There is the cost to get a set of 8-10 clubs (any idea how much that would be?) but after that, I am really starting to warm to the idea. I no longer have to wait for the Past Presidents of the USGA to figure out which way is up and can get on with a very fun game.

Who out there plays them? One thing seems for sure: more and more hickory tournaments will continue to pop up - it just seems more fun.

Cheers,

[ForkaB]

Ran

I play hickories from time to time--I even have a hickory headed putter which makes the most god-awful sound when the ball comes of the club and is great for disconcerting opponents, particularly when it is hot.

However, as you imply above, they are too hard to hit, and ball not go far.  Those of us in the Viagra generation aren't going to sacrifice our accuracy and length just to honor what some afficionado considers to be the design intent of some dead architect, are we?

[THuckaby2]

Ran:

Hell of an idea.  The issues are I see them are these:

a) Yes, hickory clubs CAN be procured, but to get halfway decent playable ones it is pretty difficult... They're easy to get at a very high price, can be found but with a LOT of effort at a decent price.  I know, I've tried.  Apparently others have made this work, but perhaps their price points and effort levels are each higher than mine.

b) this is still a scaling back and although the increase in hickory tourneys proves there is a market, it seems to me that it will always be a die-hard minority.  Chicks do dig the long ball, and that ain't gonna change.

Man I'd love to play in one of these tourneys.. I still have it as a goal to do the one at Kinglsey some day, if not one closer here to CA.  It sounds like an absolute blast to me.  But would it ever be more than just a side-light, fun thing to do from time to time?  Even for me, I don't think so...

TH

[JakaB]

I have a full set sitting next to me as I speak...with the $80 I spent on a beautiful period bag I have at most $340.00 invested in 3 woods, six irons and a putter.  There is no downside and most ofter I find me and my friends playing out of the same bag late in the evening after a regular round.  Go to ebay and search for hickory golf and you will be very surprised at the quality of what is available.

The downside is the grips...you will learn that the greatest advance in technology outside the ball is the modern rubber grip..which can so easily and cheaply be replaced.

[THuckaby2]

JakaB is the main one I was thinking of who has made this happen... Man I've scoured the internet, including Ebay, and I sure haven't had the success he has.  

TH

[A_Clay_Man]

Careful Ran, you might just give the equiptment manufactuers a reason to expand thier product lines to include implements ill suited for the task at hand.

What a niche' market.

Also, don't forget to leave the sand wedge in the car.

[Neil Regan]

If you don't have hickory clubs, try playing with no longer club than a 3- or 4-iron. The holes will play similar in length to how they would play with hickory. But, you won't get the bad-shot effect given by poorly struck hickory shots.
  I do this fairly often. Not only do the distances change, but for some reason you tend to try to play your regular clubs in a different way. For example, if a 200-yard tee shot leaves you with 180 into the green, you might try to bounce in a 5-iron rather than fly it in.

[JakaB]

Adam,

You nailed that one....Try playing at one of your modern courses with no higher loft than a nine iron.....some recoveries are escapes at best.  I have in my hands a Kroyden forged heat treated R8 with 50 deg NIBLICK stamped on the sole...it has a woven silk grip and cost me all of $30.  The feel of the club is so soft that if I had any talent at all I could probably leave it in my bag all of the time...but it just ain't the same as a 60 deg sand wedge.

I forgot to mention the bore through shaft (at the grip end)...why put it on the wall when hitting it is so fine.

[Michael Moore]

I can see it now - a 400 cc titanium coffee pot on the end of a hickory shaft.

But seriously folks, I am getting fed up with my persimmons and my Professional 90s because they are practically disposable.  The ball looks like an egg at the turn, and without meticulous and somewhat expensive regular checkups, the woods just disintegrate. I can imagine hickory shafts being equally delicate.

But as long as Sweeney is going to look at me on the first tee and go "Ah ha ha ha, wooden clubs, ah ha ha ha, that's so Maine!", then I suppose I have to keep after it.

[Bruce Katona]

JakaB: You just gave me a flashback.  I learned to play 35 years ago with a set of Kroyden irons handed down to me from my uncle, who taught me how to play.  I haven't thought about that in a long time.

A good 5 iron went 150 yards, a 7 iron 130, a PW 100.  The best I could ver get a 3 iron to go was 180 and that was  a one in five chance.  The other 4 were mishits as a blade 3 iron was not very easy to hit. The sweet spot was smaller than size a dime.

[Willie_Dow]

Hi Ran

Best time to play the hickories is when the ground is frozen.  I used my Willie Dow, hand forged irons once in our Divotee Match, early January a few years ago, and scored about the same as with my regular sticks.  I also have a John Gilholm driver, hickory shaft made by the pro at New Bedford CC - on loan by a friend, which I will return to him via my will.  (If he's on here?)

[JakaB]

Ran...If you or your family can get to Evansville anytime at your pleasure I will let you use my clubs for a month or three...I can only hope they bring you as much misery as this site has brought me...just let me know when.

A fair warning for those who might buy a club or two...It is not good for a hickory shaft to hit two piece range balls or hard balls at all for that matter...The thinking is that the vibration through the shaft is bad for the club.   I have noticed some experts think the ProV1 is ok...but me thinks that is scoring ego at play over love of the club.  I play Titleist Balatas.

[JohnV]

JakaB is the main one I was thinking of who has made this happen... Man I've scoured the internet, including Ebay, and I sure haven't had the success he has.  

TH

Tom there are lots of hickory shafted clubs on e-bay.  Look under Sports Memorabilia (other sports) and you'll see quite a few for pretty reasonable prices.  I got a few about 10 years ago at some of the little antique shops around Portland.  They were quite inexpensive.  Even got an old canvass bag.  I've never been brave enough to try hitting them though.

To tie two of Ran's threads together when the US Mid-Am was at the Homestead, we had our Committee tournament (The Zirpoli Cup) at Oakhurst Links where you can play 9 holes with their hickories and gutties.  Loads of fun.

[THuckaby2]

Thanks, JV.  As I said, or maybe implied, above, my price point and effort level is likely lower than most on this issue.  I don't want to spend a lot of money nor a lot of time on clubs I will only use a couple times a year... But it's good to know it can be done, that's cool.

TH

[JakaB]

I handed my spoon to a PGA touring professional... one year removed...and he hit a nice high draw that carried 240 yds....even he was surprised and it just goes to prove that talent trumps technology.

[Ken_Cotner]

Driving home last night, and feeling a bit low on protein, I stopped in Mid Pines for a cleansing Guiness.

As the protein started to circulate amongst my brain cell(s), I started thinking what a neat course Mid Pines remains to this day. Save for the 9th and 14th greens and a creek that branched into the 3rd fairway from the 5th hole, the course is pure Ross.

Cheers,

A bit off topic, but I LOVE the 14th green at Mid Pines (I think...the one I love is the short uphill par 4 after the 230 yard par 3).  Tricky as can be, and fun!

KC

[Mike_Sweeney]

But as long as Sweeney is going to look at me on the first tee and go "Ah ha ha ha, wooden clubs, ah ha ha ha, that's so Maine!", then I suppose I have to keep after it.

Mr Moore,

Well I take this as a challenge for Maine II. Thus, this summer I will be showing off with a George Izett Persimmon Wood driver (http://www.izettgolf.com/index.cfm) to fit in with "Maine State Rules". Unfortunately, I sold my last set at a garage sale.

Tom Paul,

Can I borrow one ? Somewhere at GMGC there must be a closet with a couple dozen of old Izett's.

Rich G and Paul Turner,

It would be fun to hear, as a non-participant, how 1 round of golf during the Painswick trip was played with Persimmon Woods only. Most people playing probably still have some in the basement or can be bought very cheaply. Painswick would seem like a natural for a GCA Wood Wood round of golf.

[THuckaby2]

[

It would be fun to hear, as a non-participant, how 1 round of golf during the Painswick trip was played with Persimmon Woods only. Most people playing probably still have some in the basement or can be bought very cheaply. Painswick would seem like a natural for a GCA Wood Wood round of golf.

Mike - for your edification, note that we played the second round of THE KING'S PUTTER last March with equipment at least approaching this ideal... those wanting to do it had to use steel-shafted blades for irons, nothing but wood for woods, or what the hell, old clubs (it wasn't really strict or anything).  The great Pete Galea provided us with old Tour balatas... On top of that it was raining cats and dogs.

The reports were fun to hear... but in general, one could sum it up by saying:

THE GAME USED TO BE REALLY TOUGH!

TH

[TEPaul]

Rich Goodale said;

"--I even have a hickory headed putter which makes the most god-awful sound."

Rich:

That's completely understandable as you also have something akin to a hickory head from whence plenty of god-awful sounds cometh!

[Alfie]

Don't know how the hell I missed this thread but have you guys never heard of Lewis Keller and Oakhurst Links ?

Lost count of the number of golfers I know who play nothing but hickory. It will grow as someone said earlier. Better get yourselves organised before demand makes old hickories impossible to buy.

If you want some real repro gutta percha balls - I'm your man. They sell at around £20 in St Andrews. EACH !
I'll do them cheaper since your golf beginners but experts in course repairs !

Didn't you know that all you buggers come over here every summer and take away all our beautiful hickory antique clubs ! So somebody is selling them in the Sates ?

Chuck Furjanic is one dealer (sorry no web details)

Anybody wanting info on this real FUN experience, just let me know. Cause I do know !

ps ; Get yourselves a hickory game, and then you might just understand Mr Behr that bit easier !


Alfie Ward. HICKORY GOLF IN SCOTLAND ! ( EX Ltd)

My Home Course ; Arbory Braes.   GCA.com

[Alfie]

Another contact before I hit the sack ;

Allen Wallach. www.heritagehickory.com
                    heritagehickory@home.com
                    Glenside, PA 19038

Always ask for "playclubs"



Alfie Ward. www.hickorygolf.co.uk (crap site)
               alfie@fernie55.freeserve.co.uk

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