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Eric_Dorsey

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Why is the Valley Club of Montecito so great ??
« on: January 12, 2004, 04:26:32 PM »
Would someone please shed some light on this course?  Why did it fall off the top-100, not that it means anything.

Let's see some pics too  ;)

Yes, I know about they're reclusive policy, and yes I do have Tom Doak's book on the Good Doctor.  But I want more!  

Someone please take the podium ...

THuckaby2

Re:Why is the Valley Club of Montecito so great ??
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2004, 04:29:29 PM »
Dorse - go to the Courses section of this site, check it out there.  That ought to tell you all you need.

What top 100 did it fall out of, btw?

TH

Bob_Huntley

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Re:Why is the Valley Club of Montecito so great ??
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2004, 04:44:17 PM »
It's great because it's members are without pretension, it has a wonderful golf course, the weather is as benign as anywhere  in the country, the clubhouse is of undeniable beauty and elegance, and even though you may be a gazillionaire, you can trundle along with a trolley to your hearts content wearing shorts of the most appalling hues.

It is, in my opinion, probably the most appealing club in the country.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:Why is the Valley Club of Montecito so great ??
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2004, 06:10:38 PM »
dorse:

I always wondered if it was really challenging enough for the top-flight players, but we've never done anything there to address the possibility of extra length (there's not much room, and most of the members are older and have little interest in "Tiger" tees).  And yet in the past few years Fred Couples has joined the club and plays there a lot, and Steve Pate (whose brother is a member) also plays there quite a bit, and they both enjoy it immensely.

That's the only knock I could imagine anyone having on it.  I'd second Bob H's comments on the atmosphere of the place ... it's hard to beat.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Why is the Valley Club of Montecito so great ??
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2004, 06:29:10 PM »
The answer to the "is it tough enough" question is the lengthy par 4's and the really good par 3's.  

Par 4's #3, #5, #7, #9, #16, #18, are all in excess of 400 yds and play longer as #3, #5, #9 and #18 all play uphill.  I've made more 4's on the par 5's over the years than on #3, #5 and definitely #16, a world class par 4.  The course is so subtle, with the best angles to most green sites requiring tee shots close to the ravine which runs all the way through the course.

The short par 4's are challenging.  #6 has a narrowing fairway but is short enough that you are enticed to pull the driver.  The green is among the most tilted and contoured on the course.  #12 has a hillside of death left, a deep ravine right, and a tiny green set in a narrow area.  #13 is mid length with a semi blind up hill approach.  #17 is a shortish dogleg with a tiny angled green and OB dangerously close on the left.

The set of par 3's is great.  None requires more than a mid iron, and #4 and #8 are both short irons.  But the targets are small and well protected.  #14 is a first rate 175 yds across a ravine from an elevated tee with the first fairway and clubhouse in the distance directly behind the green.

The course starts with two par 5's, so like Cypress Point, the par 5's are just about done after #10.

Bob is right, the golf is very low key, no caddies, pull carts are fine (including Freddy Couples who has been out there several times during my annual visits).  All in all it is my favorite place to play golf.  The weather isn't bad either!

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Why is the Valley Club of Montecito so great ??
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2004, 07:13:30 PM »
Bill,

How impossible is it to join?  Any idea on the initiation fees, monthly dues and waiting list?  I suspect that it is like CPC, in that if you have to ask, you don't qualify.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Why is the Valley Club of Montecito so great ??
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2004, 10:42:53 PM »
Lou, I truly have no idea!  I first played there as a member of the UCSB golf team in the early '60's, and it hasn't diminished over time.  

Eric_Dorsey

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Why is the Valley Club of Montecito so great ??
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2004, 02:17:04 AM »
great stuff guys = thanks!   maybe just 1 pic I haven't seen ??   :'(

only kidding VCM.

Matt_Ward

Re:Why is the Valley Club of Montecito so great ??
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2004, 11:09:38 AM »
I have played the Valley twice (the last time coming 15 years ago) and it is everything that has been stated. I will say that Tom Doak's comments on possibly adding a bit more length was something I originally believed when I played there the first time.

On my second visit I more fully appreciated what IS there and believe the club is one of the more underapprciated jewels that exists. Clearly, if anyone ventures to SoCal a quick trip to the Santa Barbara area is well recommended.

Bill B:

Your comments are well taken -- the ravine that runs through parts of the property does make for some interesting choices on a number of tee shots. The atmosphere of the club is also most hospitable.

I can only say thank heavens the design characteristics have not been turned on their head as can and does happen too many times.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Why is the Valley Club of Montecito so great ??
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2004, 12:49:51 PM »
Matt Ward, your post got me wondering about the negative effect of length VS time and memories of great golf courses.  I assume with the new balls and high tech drivers, that you have gained 25+ yards since 15 years ago.  Perhaps I am wrong on that.  But if so, how do you think that would effect your perception of VCofM if you played a 2004 round there?  Have you experienced that sort of time warp diminishment of your perception of a great golf course, having last played it considerable years ago with less length enhancing equipment, then returning with your newest equipment and greater length to be let down by much shorter second shots and carried FW problems.

Tom D., states how Couples and Pate often play there which would suggest that there is plenty of enjoyment on the 400+ yard holes as Bill advises.  But at 400-420, they would still be driver 9I or wedges for those fellows if there is room in the LZ beyond the intended old LZs for them to get too off the tee.
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Matt_Ward

Re:Why is the Valley Club of Montecito so great ??
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2004, 02:36:45 PM »
Dick:

You pose a good question but I still believe the intrinsic elements of Valley are still present.

Just keep in mind I play a number of other courses in my "neck of the woods" which aren't long but still have plenty of inherent architectural elements that make them so appealing and worthwhile (e.g. Forsgate, Montclair, Hollywood, etc, etc) even with the boost that technology has provided.

Clearly, since I have not been back for quite some time it would be interesting to see what, if any, differences in opinion would be present.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Why is the Valley Club of Montecito so great ??
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2004, 05:21:34 PM »
Dick, there is actually more length than 400+ as I mentioned - this is from memory so don't quote me:  #3 435 slightly uphill very narrow landing area, great hole; #5 415 more uphill, difficult green once you get there; #9 405? maybe more from tips, easy to drive thorugh the fairway; #16 very long 440 dogleg left; #18 420 very uphill.  Given that the course is at sea level and course is not exactly fast, these are solid par 4's.  Tom Doak has done a great job restoring bunkers and also green surrounds have been restored.  

Dr MacKenzie was so great at recognizing and utilizing outstanding green sites.  Playing the Valley Club over the years and then playing Cypress Point last year just makes me realize the diversity of golf and the genius of the good Dr.  I caddied at the Meadow Club and remember little of it except the beauty of the setting, and played Sharp Park a lot when little Dr. MacK was left.  Too bad.

Bob_Huntley

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Re:Why is the Valley Club of Montecito so great ??
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2004, 05:34:10 PM »
I am sure that a goodly numbers of big bangers in our group would think that the course is too short. John Pate, Steve's brother holds the course record with a 61... he is loonnng.

However, for mere mortals it is an exquisite test and demands some well played shots to break eighty.