[Jeff Goldman]

Those who want to know what Adam is talking about may get the chance to play the original 18 holes at Blackwolf Run.  My monthly newsletter from DestinationKohler.com has early season specials that include playing the original 18.  I hope we get to play the original hole (the first?) from just below the clubhouse and then up to the now 10th green from the meadow-valley course.  How good was it, Adam?

Jeff Goldman

[A_Clay_Man]

Thanx Jeff that's great news. I can almost get behind Shivas' match play but comparing the new with the old seems odd. I would call it all square through #4 then:

Old #5 - New #5 new n 1 up
Old #6  - New #6 old  as
Old #7 - New #7 old o 1 up
Old #8 - New #8 new  as
Old #9 - New #9 new n 1 up
Old # 10 - New #10 old  as
Old #11 - New #11 new n 1 up
Old #12 - New #12 old  as
Old #13 - New #13 old o 1 up
Old #14 - New #14 old o 2 up
Old #15 - New #15 old o 3 up (dormie)
Old #16 - New #16 old o wins 4&2

Plus, if it really is that close as Shiv says on a hole by hole breakdown, the ebb and flow of the original makes it a hands down winner. Of course this is all me and my feelings.

[Jeff Goldman]

To me, it will be great to play the original 10th hole from just below the clubhouse, over the river and then up to the green, which Adam has told me used to be a lot flatter.  Somewhat reminiscent of the original first hole at Banff, which was from jsut behind the old clubhouse, and a lot less elevated than it is now, since the tee was moved way back and up.

Jeff Goldman

[A_Clay_Man]

The green that serves as the Meadow courses tenth use to be 34' feet higher. It was flat. When I say flat I mean flat. I think it gets flatter everytime i think about it, and that's possible since it NLE.

The removed 34' were almost vertical, as one approached this green. Unique doesn't do it justice. The last few yards were vertical and almost impossible to negotiate walking. I remember busting my 5 wood from 140 and it came up short. The rise from the valley floor must've been 100 feet. I understood the changes but it doesn't make the current hole worth squat.

[Paul Richards]

Jeff

the original 18 is pretty special at Blackwolf, although I have to admit the best hole on the course, #5 - "Made-in-Heaven" wasn't part of it.

[Big B]

The original first hole is sloped like a triple black diamond on a ski slope.  Don't forget about the tee box tucked back in the woods.  It's gets you all charged up when your going to play the Meadows Course and you drive the cart over the river, pass that hole and then another 5 minutes through the woods to get to the 1st tee.

There's nothing like playing the River Course and the Straits Course in the same day!

[A_Clay_Man]

SHivy baby- That was my first attempt at match play as it relates hole by hole. I just think if you're going to compare golf courses we should compare golf courses.

I agree with Paul that "made in Heaven" is a fantastic hole. I have fond memories watching GN hack his way out of the back nasties in the first or second year of the AMEX match play BUT, the next two holes are just O.K. (something weird off the tee on both) # 8 "hell's Gate" is my personal Fav and 9 is no slouch. 11 is world class and 12's drive is a great choice/decision. 13 is cool and serene along the river but rather one dimensional don't ya think?

Part of the issue is those remaining 5 holes. Originally designed as the middle, they lack the nitty gritty to be called great finishers imho, while the stretch of holes on the Valley nine is sublime.

David- Your recent comment about the 9th at CGC made me wonder if you miss the effectivenes or the concept of "breather" hole or the appreciation for the placement of a golf hole that isn't full metal throttle all the way to 18?

[A_Clay_Man]

Now, I'm lost. But hopefully you will be able to golf the original and tell us what you think of it, and to make it real, walk. To be fair, Walk both, and then tell me which is better.

As for the 11th hole(current meadow 11 & orig. 11) I see a wonderful tee shot which is in keeping with the rest of the diagonal carries over nastiness to a narrowish spined fairway leading straight to the green from the angle created off the tee. I may be prejudiced about the mounding behind and to the left of the green because it's where I first saw and fell in love with the beauty of the long blonde whisping grasses. Oddly enough, they were gone the second season.
When I golfed Cypress, what hole'd do you think I thought of teeing off #2 at CPC? Why it was #11 and #7 on the orig. bwr. The bite off as much as you'd like to chew, diagonal up the left bunker carry complex, similar, no?

And as I type this, the slight change in look and feel of those tee shots and fairways of the newer holes are close, but not quite in character. Save for perhaps the second shot on Hells gate.

[A_Clay_Man]

Forgot to get into 16, the par 5 blind tee shot over the weathered shack, with the gobi desert exteding from about the 150 yd mark up the right and passing by the green. Oh yeah, that hole. This hole is no slouch and the recoverability aspect places it higher than the newer less recoverable aspects of the newer site and holes.

And, I've holed out from the gobi, so i may be a tad biased,again.

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