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Geoff_Shackelford

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Any courses owned by equipment manufacturers?
« on: December 13, 2003, 01:53:46 PM »
Does anyone know of a golf course owned and operated by a golf equipment manufacturer?

Tim_Weiman

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Re:Any courses owned by equipment manufacturers?
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2003, 03:25:53 PM »
Geoff,

No I don't, but it is an interesting issue. Maybe if they did we would get a more honest assessment of how little economic sense the golf technology arms race makes.
Tim Weiman

Jim_Kennedy

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Re:Any courses owned by equipment manufacturers?
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2003, 03:37:59 PM »
Geoff,
I don't know any in the present day but this has happened in the past.
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re:Any courses owned by equipment manufacturers?
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2003, 03:41:11 PM »
Geoff:
I seem to remember that Moon Valley CC in Phoenix, the former site of the LPGA event, was and maybe still is owned by the Solheim family. Ping used it for equipment testing.

Steve

From Rebecca Larsen @ golfarizona.com
www.golfarizona.com/departments/features/july-larsen-notebook.htm

"....There was one golf personality on the "mountain" - a tribute to the fact that golf has played such a major role in the growth of Phoenix. But it wasn't a player, it was the late Karsten Solheim, the creator of Ping golf clubs. That was only the beginning of Solheim's accomplishments, of course. He also bought and refurbished the Moon Valley Country Club in Phoenix and helped fund the Karsten Laboratory for Turfgrass Research at the University of Arizona and the Karsten Golf Course at Arizona State University. He was also a major supporter of women's golfing events. "
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RJ_Daley

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Re:Any courses owned by equipment manufacturers?
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2003, 04:00:01 PM »
Geoff, I know you mean the game of golfs ball and impliment manufacturers.  But, in case you are looking for other related companies in the golf biz, I can't think of the name of the course (the Farm?) or fert company, but I think there is one in Miss or Ala., owned by a fert manufacturer or coater.  And, John Deere course in Iowa.  Doesn't Textron have their fingers in some golf course ownership pie?  I'd think your associates at Golfdom could name them off the top of their heads.
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

A_Clay_Man

Re:Any courses owned by equipment manufacturers?
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2003, 04:05:16 PM »
It's about time those who have bled the game dry give something back to the game, not just charities.

Does the uSGA own any?

Geoff_Shackelford

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Re:Any courses owned by equipment manufacturers?
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2003, 04:28:14 PM »
Thanks acer, good call on Moon Valley, I forgot about it.

RJ, I am aware of those owned by the product makers, but as Tim pointed out, I was definitely thinking of the companies in Carlsbad who believe it's the burden of courses to accomodate changes in the sport. I doubt ownership of a course would change their philosophy, but it might make them at least aware of the impact of longer, narrower, less fun, less affordable courses on someone else's bottom line.

Sean Remington (SBR)

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Re:Any courses owned by equipment manufacturers?
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2003, 04:32:25 PM »
  Pursell Technologies built and owns Farm Links in GA. Look through any "Golfdom" or "Golf Course Management" and you will see their adds. A fertilizer manufacture and development company. Very nice people overall with strong family business involvment. David Purcell is actually quite and artist and superintendents who have attended our national trade show for the last 10 or so years have seen his work. That's all I have off the top of my head without looking things up.

Tim_Weiman

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Re:Any courses owned by equipment manufacturers?
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2003, 05:27:58 PM »
Geoff:

I'm going to be kind and suggest that while companies in Carlsbad may believe it's the burden of courses to accommodate what you call "changes in the sport", they are smart enough not to state it explicitly.

Doing so would expose the obvious (at least to me) flaw in the whole golf technology arms race.

Golf is a game that depends on a BALANCE between player skills, the equipment deployed and the configuration of the playing field. In a sensible world, that balance would be achieved at the lowest possible cost.

If we gave a golfer a ball he could hit 400 yards, nobody would be foolish enough to think this was an “improvement”. Likewise, if we suggested courses ought to be 10,000 yards to accommodate “technology improvements”, most human beings with a reasonable IQ would see the flaw in such reasoning.

So, the Carlsbad boys are smart enough to pursue gradual, incremental change and obscure the cost it imposes on golfers.

We need to expose the long term damage they are doing to the game, how the emphasis on absolute rather than relative distance only makes playing the game more expensive.

Tournament golf doesn’t need all this new technology; the whole point is to identify different levels of playing skills. Casual golf doesn’t need new technology either: people want to play more not pay more.
Tim Weiman

Joe Hancock

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Re:Any courses owned by equipment manufacturers?
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2003, 05:33:21 PM »
Farm Links, owned by the Pursell fertilizer family, is in Alabama. They have partnered with Toro, Club Car and many other manufacturers to use the facilty as a testing ground. I have had the pleasure of being on the property and meeting the family, and I have to say it is a very impressive idea they are implementing.

I don't know why this concept couldn't work for the clubs and balls end of golf.

Joe

Addition: The course was designed by Dr. Mike Hurdzan
« Last Edit: December 13, 2003, 05:34:19 PM by JHancock »
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

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Sr Fortson

Re:Any courses owned by equipment manufacturers?
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2003, 06:17:09 PM »
Moon Valley CC in Phoenix was, indeed, owned by Karsten Manufacturing for many years.  However, it is now in the process of being sold back to the members.

Geoff_Shackelford

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Re:Any courses owned by equipment manufacturers?
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2003, 11:43:17 PM »
Tim,

Here's Cleveland Golf's CEO Greg Hopkins on last week's "State of the Game" Golf Channel show:

“Golf’s got an advantage though. Because you can add a new bunker. You have a dynamic playing field that can address change in the game. You may not like it, but you can address it.”

To which Jack Nicklaus asked, "Who's going to pay for it?"

I'd say that's pretty explicit! There was also an interesting exchange on this issue between Golf World editor Geoff Russell and Suzy Whaley.

It was Hopkins' remark that made me wonder how many of the companies were ever in the golf course business.  

Anthony_Nysse

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Re:Any courses owned by equipment manufacturers?
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2003, 12:16:28 AM »
Doesn't John Deere own a part of TPC at Deere Run? I know it's part of the TPC network, but it was build on property the JD owned for years.

Joe-You've been down to Pursell.... It's an amazing place. The front 9 was open when I was there last March, but our tour guide took us to the 5th hole where there is a 158 foot drop and all 7 of us launched 5, 6 balls each and counted the hang time!!!
« Last Edit: December 14, 2003, 12:20:53 AM by Anthony_Nysse »
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Jim_Kennedy

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Re:Any courses owned by equipment manufacturers?
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2003, 01:08:49 AM »
Geoff,
I think it's time to look elsewhere. Ninety % of the golfing public cannot overpower 6,500 yard courses now and they probably won't be able to in the foreseeable future.
Rather, let's start blaming developers who use length to pander to a minor segment of long hitting golfers, even though a majority of their play will never come from this segment. They use length because they feel it will set them apart in their over built market and they've been doing this for quite a long time. They use length because they need to be noticed by another contributor to the problem, the ratings.
Yeah, let's blame ratings. After all, when was the last time you saw "Best new course under 6,500 yds." or "Best course under 6,500 yds. that has interest and is fun to play"?


 
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon