[David Ober]

I was not a fan of the experience at either Castle Stuart or Kingsbarns and did not think the courses good enough to then warrant a return visit. I could play three rounds at Golspie, Kilspindie, or Elie for about the same price as one round at either CS or KB.
Ira

Thought KB was great, but the Castle Course was not good imo.  I will never go back there

My exact feelings. Loved Kingsbarns. One of my all-time favorites, in fact. And The Castle was, without question, the worst golf experience I've ever had.

My goodness. I've never been, but I can't even imagine how bad a links course a links course has to be in order for that links course to qualify as the worst golf experience a good golfer has ever had!

We played:


The Old Course
The Jubilee
Kingsbarns
Carnoustie
The Castle


Waterville
Tralee
Lahinch
Dooks
Ballybunion


Loved every course on the trip except The Castle. Truly an awful experience with balls rolling 60 yards back down to your feet. Four golfers ranging from +2 to 2 and not one of us even remotely enjoyed the course. And I know we're not alone. Have spoken to many golfers with similar opinions.


And I absolutely loved Bandon Dunes. Go figure ....

[Ira Fishman]

Peter,


Neither of them actually are links courses. They are very scenic courses set on the water near true links courses. Even I as a novice could tell that they are manufactured to appeal to the sensibilities of tourist golfers. Generally I can remember holes from courses that we play. I cannot remember a single hole from CS except the 18th. I can remember a couple of good holes on KB--7, 11, and 12, but also a couple of bad holes--8 and 18.


Perhaps the architecture at KB is better than I give it credit. The fact that the starter scolded me for walking away when he started his introductory spiel (I had heard it the year before at CS) did not put me in a receptive mood.


And both courses took more than 5 hours to play. At least an hour more than any other course on our two respective trips.


Ira

[David_Tepper]

Somewhere over the past several posts, comments on Castle Stuart (near Inverness) have been confused with comments on the Castle Course (in St. Andrews).

[Marty Bonnar]

I was not a fan of the experience at either Castle Stuart or Kingsbarns and did not think the courses good enough to then warrant a return visit. I could play three rounds at Golspie, Kilspindie, or Elie for about the same price as one round at either CS or KB.
Ira

Thought KB was great, but the Castle Course was not good imo.  I will never go back there

My exact feelings. Loved Kingsbarns. One of my all-time favorites, in fact. And The Castle was, without question, the worst golf experience I've ever had.

My goodness. I've never been, but I can't even imagine how bad a links course a links course has to be in order for that links course to qualify as the worst golf experience a good golfer has ever had!

Okay,
Not a clue which course we’re discussing!
F.

[Garland Bayley]

My goodness. I've never been, but I can't even imagine how bad a links course a links course has to be in order for that links course to qualify as the worst golf experience a good golfer has ever had!

The Castle Course is not a links course. You can read all about it being a mud pit in The Seventh at St. Andrews which Kidd wrote about his experience in construction of the Castle course there. He built it at a time when he was going a bit overboard there and at Tetherow in Oregon. Because of the unsuitable site Tom rated it 0, should never have been built.

My opinion? If most of the courses I have played are average, Doak 3s, then for me the Castle course was at least a 4.

[Peter Pallotta]

Thanks Ira, David, Garland -- I assumed we were talking about the Castle Course at St Andrews. I didn't know or had long forgotten that Tom had given it a 0, so I was surprised how much David and Ira disliked it; sorry for the confusion, because the course is 'at' St Andrews I reflexively threw in the 'links' word/concept. Even though I now know it got a 0, I still find it hard to imagine how much it is disliked by some good and/or well travelled golfers.

All that said, I suppose it goes to show that F Scott Fitzgerald was wrong after all when he wrote that 'There are no second acts in Architects' lives'.

[Sean_A]

I'll stand up for these courses.

Castle Course has its frustrating moments, but overall, it's a good course. I am not rushing to return because its expensive and has drainage issues which is by far its worst fault. But, I wouldn't whinge if it was included in a trip organised by someone else.

Kingsbarns is a a great course. The original links is weaved well into the man made parts of the course. A bit of an awkward routing to include more seafront golf is hit and miss. Plenty of space to play and good variety. Again, not itching to return because its very expensive, but if offered a very good deal I would happily return.

Castle Stuart is another great course. Somewhat similar to Kingsbarns with its width and on tiered land. Interesting greens and bunkers. For me it's easily one of the best courses in Scotland. There is a outside chance I could return because its conveniently located near the airport.

Ciao

[Adam Lawrence]

I was not a fan of the experience at either Castle Stuart or Kingsbarns and did not think the courses good enough to then warrant a return visit. I could play three rounds at Golspie, Kilspindie, or Elie for about the same price as one round at either CS or KB.
Ira

Thought KB was great, but the Castle Course was not good imo.  I will never go back there

My exact feelings. Loved Kingsbarns. One of my all-time favorites, in fact. And The Castle was, without question, the worst golf experience I've ever had.

My goodness. I've never been, but I can't even imagine how bad a links course a links course has to be in order for that links course to qualify as the worst golf experience a good golfer has ever had!

I personally like the Castle; but the point of this post is to have it on record that it is in no sense a links course.

[Sean_A]

I was not a fan of the experience at either Castle Stuart or Kingsbarns and did not think the courses good enough to then warrant a return visit. I could play three rounds at Golspie, Kilspindie, or Elie for about the same price as one round at either CS or KB.
Ira

Thought KB was great, but the Castle Course was not good imo.  I will never go back there

My exact feelings. Loved Kingsbarns. One of my all-time favorites, in fact. And The Castle was, without question, the worst golf experience I've ever had.

My goodness. I've never been, but I can't even imagine how bad a links course a links course has to be in order for that links course to qualify as the worst golf experience a good golfer has ever had!

I personally like the Castle; but the point of this post is to have it on record that it is in no sense a links course.

That should be obvious to anyone who steps on the property.

Ciao

[Garland Bayley]

I'll stand up for these courses.

Castle Course has its frustrating moments, but overall, it's a good course. I am not rushing to return because its expensive and has drainage issues which is by far its worst fault. But, I wouldn't whinge if it was included in a trip organised by someone else.

...

For those of you that find the cost a factor in choosing whether to play it or not, I played it on a shoulder season 3 day links ticket for effectively 25 pounds. The three day ticket let's you reserve 3 tee times. And, then play any of the courses later in the day other than TOC for no additional fee. So if you play 36 a day, it comes to 25 per 18.

[Ian Mackenzie]

European Club.


Harbortown.


Carnoustie.


The Belfry - Brabazon.


Stanwich.


Secession.

[Garland Bayley]

Saunton

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