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Tim Martin

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XXIO Driver (OT)
« on: August 01, 2021, 08:16:45 AM »
Please accept my apology for a clearly off topic thread. I’m not much of an equipment enthusiast but my curiosity is piqued regarding the above referenced product. They are very expensive but the idea of catering expressly to players with declining or slower swing speeds intrigues me and I would be interested in feedback from anyone who plays one. Finally the pronunciation is zek-si-oh which I think almost everyone will admit is fun to say. ;D

David_Tepper

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Re: XXIO Driver (OT)
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2021, 10:03:37 AM »
Some comments and reviews of XXIO clubs here:

https://mygolfspy.com/?s=xxio

Pete_Pittock

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Re: XXIO Driver (OT) New
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2021, 05:22:28 PM »
Tim,
The concept intrigues me and there is a course less than five miles away where I can demo them.  It would take a quantum leap to justify buying (10+ yards.
UPDATE:
Tried both a prime driver and a 7 iron. No hard sell, just hit with a launch monitor, which was distressing to me when I saw my swing speed numbers. Distance change was negligible. The good news was that my current clubs have started to act much better knowing they might be replaced.


A number of years ago I set up an appointment with Hot Stix at Palo Alto. Swing was honed prior to driving down.  Bottom line the rep said that he could sell me a new driver and irons for XXX dollars, but I'd only gain about a yard.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2021, 09:37:40 PM by Pete_Pittock »

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: XXIO Driver (OT)
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2021, 05:30:51 PM »
As a slight aside I understand that XX10 is to Srixon what Lexus is to Toyota.
Atb

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: XXIO Driver (OT)
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2021, 05:56:07 PM »
As a slight aside I understand that XX10 is to Srixon what Lexus is to Toyota.
Atb


Thomas- I think that’s a good analogy and would add that it would be at the top of the Lexus lineup considering the price. I hit some on a simulator since I started the thread with two different models and couldn’t say I loved either one. No real discernible increase in swing speed, ball speed or carry distance.


Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: XXIO Driver (OT)
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2021, 06:58:49 PM »
"No real discernible increase in swing speed, ball speed or carry distance."
Please tell me that didn't surprise you. The snake oil salesmen are at it again. ;)
 
As a slight aside I understand that XX10 is to Srixon what Lexus is to Toyota.
Atb


Thomas- I think that’s a good analogy and would add that it would be at the top of the Lexus lineup considering the price. I hit some on a simulator since I started the thread with two different models and couldn’t say I loved either one. No real discernible increase in swing speed, ball speed or carry distance.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: XXIO Driver (OT)
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2021, 07:03:22 PM »
"No real discernible increase in swing speed, ball speed or carry distance."
Please tell me that didn't surprise you. The snake oil salesmen are at it again. ;)
 
As a slight aside I understand that XX10 is to Srixon what Lexus is to Toyota.
Atb


Thomas- I think that’s a good analogy and would add that it would be at the top of the Lexus lineup considering the price. I hit some on a simulator since I started the thread with two different models and couldn’t say I loved either one. No real discernible increase in swing speed, ball speed or carry distance.


 ;D

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: XXIO Driver (OT)
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2021, 11:14:09 PM »
I bought a Callaway Epic driver this spring to replace my old Taylor Made...I did the whole club fitting thing, smashed balls into the screen on the simulator, looked at the launch monitor etc...etc.   Paid $500 for the club (a deal as a former employee of the country club) and, after everything, there was really no added distance...just a new driver in my bag.   


This XXOO whatever thing probably wouldn't add any distance to my game.  But hey, if it could give me a good erection, I might just spring the dough for it!
No one is above the law. LOCK HIM UP!!!

Dave Doxey

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Re: XXIO Driver (OT)
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2021, 09:53:30 AM »
Golf equipment marketing is amazing.

Jim Sherma

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Re: XXIO Driver (OT)
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2021, 10:15:07 AM »
One guy I know picked up an XXIO driver and 3 wood and had meaningful improvement. Good low-ball flight player in the past but due to health issues his swing speed had slowed and he had also some hand issues that made a normal weight driver painful to swing. The XXIO was lighter and the shaft allowed him to better release the club. This was after going through a few other drivers with no improvement. It's likely that any lightweight and softer low-kickpoint shaft would have been as beneficial, but there are not many of those on the market.


The marketing is over the top, but I think there is a legit golf segment that could benefit from some of what they are selling.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: XXIO Driver (OT)
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2021, 10:57:26 AM »
Amazing is not the word I would use...

Its a good thing its hard to prove unfair and deceptive advertising in the golf equipment biz cause companies would be getting sued non-stop. I can't find the video, but did it get any 'better" than Peter Kessler and his "Perfect Club" commercials...

P.S.  The equipment companies may as well save their money making infomercials and just use something like this!!  ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Vq3Y5R9SME

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: XXIO Driver (OT)
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2021, 08:56:38 AM »
I bought a Callaway Epic driver this spring to replace my old Taylor Made...I did the whole club fitting thing, smashed balls into the screen on the simulator, looked at the launch monitor etc...etc.   Paid $500 for the club (a deal as a former employee of the country club) and, after everything, there was really no added distance...just a new driver in my bag.   


This XXOO whatever thing probably wouldn't add any distance to my game.  But hey, if it could give me a good erection, I might just spring the dough for it!
I'm REALLY curious about this; what did you see during the fitting that hasn't happened on the golf course with the new driver?

I ask this sincerely; it has been many years since I had a club in my bag that was NOT there because of a pretty careful fitting process, and without exception what I've seen on the golf course has been at least what the numbers in the fitting session showed, if not better.  This has been especially true of drivers, since the rest of the bag is more about gaps and covering specific distances.

Maybe I've been lucky because I've had access to great club fitters all along, and maybe it's easier to get real gains for somebody that is aging and losing swing speed.  But as long as you hit the old club a few times to get benchmarks, I've found the Trackman/Flightscope numbers to be really accurate predictors of what would happen on the golf course.

And I don't want to make you feel bad, but you didn't get a deal on the Epic; those retail for $500.  :)
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: XXIO Driver (OT)
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2021, 01:12:01 PM »
AG,

We had a big discussion on GCA a number of years back.  I think the conclusion was basically, yes some fittings are legit, but most are basically a scam to close the sell.

At my one and only fitting I thought I had miraculously gained 50-60 yards on my driver and 20+ yards on my long irons, I was stoked! Reality hit me in cruel fashion when I got to the range and course and realized I'd been duped, even though I was gonna buy a new set of clubs anyways as my previous ones were stolen.

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: XXIO Driver (OT)
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2021, 01:42:42 PM »
AG,

We had a big discussion on GCA a number of years back.  I think the conclusion was basically, yes some fittings are legit, but most are basically a scam to close the sell.

At my one and only fitting I thought I had miraculously gained 50-60 yards on my driver and 20+ yards on my long irons, I was stoked! Reality hit me in cruel fashion when I got to the range and course and realized I'd been duped, even though I was gonna buy a new set of clubs anyways as my previous ones were stolen.
Kalen,

I've read MANY such discussions, here and elsewhere; there is a large colony of "anti-fitting" guys over on Golfwrx.

But I've never understood the issue, because the process is so simple.  You find a qualified club fitter.  You hit your current clubs on his launch monitor to get a baseline of numbers.  You work with him to see IF there are alternatives to your current equipment that represent gains in some way; distance is the most common, but dispersion runs a VERY close second, and for a lot of guys will be driving the bus.  If there is an improvement available, you have to decide is the trade-off is worth the dollars TO YOU; we're all in different places on that.  I would (and just did!) pay $500 for 10 yards without question, but I know not everybody feels that way.  The only way to get more than that comes about IF you are using clubs that are especially poorly suited to you and your golf swing. 


But you ALWAYS go into the fitting process with a willingness to pay a fitting fee for the peace of mind of knowing that what you've already got is the best thing for you.  ALWAYS...


So in 2010, I got fitted to a K15 12 degree that replaced my Ping Rapture because the dispersion was MUCH tighter with identical distance.  In 2014, I got fitted to a Ping G30, back down to 10.5*, to replace the K15; the spin rates were MUCH lower, and I got the same carry with more roll out, and recovered 10 yards that age had taken away.  In 2018, the G400 came out in a smaller club head size, and I got 3 mph more speed over the G30, again recovering some lost distance from the aging process.  (I'm 69 now, FWIW.)

One of the reasons that I was so interested in Craig's post is because he was referencing the Callaway Epic, though he doesn't say which one.  I just did a fitting a couple of weeks ago, and ended up with an Epic Max, which was NOT what I went into the fitting expecting.  Again, we were able to wring almost 4 mph of swing speed out of the club vs my G400 on average; it's the first non-Ping driver I've had in at least 15 years, probably longer, and in the 5 rounds that I've played with the new driver, guess what?  The numbers are spot on to what the Trackman numbers were at the fitting.


I should also mention this: In the time between my 2014 and 2018 fittings, Ping came out with both the G and the G410 models.  I asked my club fitter if they were worth a try for me, and in both cases, he said, "Don't bother; they can't beat what you already have."  THIS time, with the Ping G425, he said, "This is worth a try."  The Callaway was a surprise, but I do NOT care what a club says on the bottom; only what it does.

I suspect that there is an inverse relationship between the expectations of gain from a new club and the satisfaction with that club when real life comes along.  New drivers are EXACTLY like new cars; go shopping in a fever, and you'll get something new and shiny that's really expensive, but little or no better than what you had already.  Blaming the car salesman in a store for that is no different blaming the club fitter; the real culprit is viewable in the bathroom mirror at your house!
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: XXIO Driver (OT)
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2021, 02:43:05 PM »
AG,

We had a big discussion on GCA a number of years back.  I think the conclusion was basically, yes some fittings are legit, but most are basically a scam to close the sell.

At my one and only fitting I thought I had miraculously gained 50-60 yards on my driver and 20+ yards on my long irons, I was stoked! Reality hit me in cruel fashion when I got to the range and course and realized I'd been duped, even though I was gonna buy a new set of clubs anyways as my previous ones were stolen.


Apologies to Garland. You are a rube.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: XXIO Driver (OT)
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2021, 03:12:44 PM »
AG and John,

I didn't do any homework or due diligence for any of it before being fitted.  When I went to buy clubs, I wasn't even planning on doing it, they offered it for free as a service to find the "best clubs" for me.

I most certainly got caught with my pants down on this one, I didn't know what I didn't know.  Guilty on all counts!

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: XXIO Driver (OT)
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2021, 09:59:18 PM »
A.G.....The fitting was good...spin, height, carry etc...Used the ball I play with everyday...looked like it added 10-15 yards on the simulator...In real life, maybe?  I wanted a new driver and a 3 wood...came away with a new driver and a 5 wood. 


Since getting the new driver I have played less than a half dozen times. Too hot, too smokey for me....Hoping that the fires in the west die down, and the weather cools below 100 degrees soon.
No one is above the law. LOCK HIM UP!!!

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: XXIO Driver (OT)
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2021, 10:10:14 PM »
A.G.  Yes, I too bought the Max..10.5 degree, draw bias.  I did increase swing speed, got a little more distance and consistent direction due to higher ball flight, more club head speed..ball speed etc...The surprise for me was the 3 wood v 5 wood.  The 5 wood gave me what I wanted...a club I could hit reasonably straight, and high enough to stay on the green from 200-210 yards out. I could hit the 3 wood farther, but not with the height needed...Whether the club fitter was any good or not I could not tell. I hit my clubs to establish a base line and then the Callaway's...tried a couple of shafts and heads...on the driver.

No one is above the law. LOCK HIM UP!!!

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: XXIO Driver (OT)
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2021, 08:33:01 AM »
A.G.  Yes, I too bought the Max..10.5 degree, draw bias.  I did increase swing speed, got a little more distance and consistent direction due to higher ball flight, more club head speed..ball speed etc...The surprise for me was the 3 wood v 5 wood.  The 5 wood gave me what I wanted...a club I could hit reasonably straight, and high enough to stay on the green from 200-210 yards out. I could hit the 3 wood farther, but not with the height needed...Whether the club fitter was any good or not I could not tell. I hit my clubs to establish a base line and then the Callaway's...tried a couple of shafts and heads...on the driver.

I must have misunderstood; I read your previous post as meaning that you had found your on-course results to be inferior to what you saw at the club fitting.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: XXIO Driver (OT)
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2021, 09:42:40 AM »
A.G.  Yes, in limited use, I am not seeing any great changes in distance.  It might be because I am playing once every two or three weeks and haven't "found" my swing and tempo yet...When the weather improves and the smoke lifts I will play more and have a better opportunity to compare the old and new drivers.
No one is above the law. LOCK HIM UP!!!

Dave Doxey

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: XXIO Driver (OT)
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2021, 11:42:57 AM »
I was at a local course’s driving range a couple of years ago.  I happened to end up next to a “free club fitting” setup, with a fancy trackman-like setup.  In the time I was there, four golfers got the club fitting.   After reviewing a lot of swing numbers from the machine, all were told that they needed the new driver that added 10+ yards to their distance.  Amazingly, all needed the same $500 club.  The one matching the manufacturer ‘sw name on the van in the parking lot.

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: XXIO Driver (OT)
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2021, 12:42:55 PM »
Joe Perches once counseled me to be skeptical on most matters of importance.  He was coming mainly from a political angle, mostly not sharing many of my opinions and views, but I think that his advice is sound in most matters.


I've been a skeptic on club fittings as well as on most mass-marketed products.  Through one of the prior threads on the subject, A.G.'s take convinced me to give a comprehensive, full-set fitting a try.  I did some homework, getting a few recommendations from several mates, and finally choosing Kevin Bleiler in Garland, TX back in 2019.


http://www.knbgolf.com/


We had three 1.5+ hour sessions, outside, with an earlier version of Trackman.  I was playing Ping s55s with KBS 120g stiff shafts and a TM M1 driver.  We tried all the major brands and the only iron I hit marginally better was the Ping i500 with the same shaft.  Kevin said that until I was able to correct a significant flaw in my swing (I think, a concession to a fusion of a disc in my neck years earlier and probably only fixable with careful, considerable physical training) he couldn't recommend spending the money on new irons.


We did find some good performance improvements with one driver- less backspin, slightly longer carry, more roll-out- the TM M-6.  I had been alternating a late version of the Ping driver (G35?) with the M1, hitting the Ping straighter, but the M1 further.  And while I liked the sound and feel of the Ping driver more, I was getting more distance from the M6 than the latest Ping at that time, without sacrificing control very much.


I hadn't bought a new set of irons for a while, and though Kevin tried to talk me out of it, I bought the i500s (4-U), two forged Glide sand wedges, and the M6 driver.  Once they came in, he helped me re-grip the clubs (Ping didn't carry the GripMaster product that I like) and we went to his secluded area at the end of the range to try the new clubs out.  I did pay retail and it was money well-spent.  My driver is definitely better day-in and day-out, and occasionally, one of my iron shots comes off like a Lou of 20 years ago hit it with some regularity.


As one of Kevin's references emphasized, in all things, integrity is key.  There are some fitters out there who are really good at what they do and put the client's interest first and foremost.  They may be hard to find.  The only downside might be that scheduling is not easy, which is likely reinforcement that the fitter/teacher is good.


 
« Last Edit: August 07, 2021, 12:47:21 PM by Lou_Duran »

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: XXIO Driver (OT)
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2021, 12:43:17 PM »
I was at a local course’s driving range a couple of years ago.  I happened to end up next to a “free club fitting” setup, with a fancy trackman-like setup.  In the time I was there, four golfers got the club fitting.   After reviewing a lot of swing numbers from the machine, all were told that they needed the new driver that added 10+ yards to their distance.  Amazingly, all needed the same $500 club.  The one matching the manufacturer ‘sw name on the van in the parking lot.


What exactly would you expect in that scenario?




 Demo days by a particular company are limited only to that company’s product line, and are sales pitches.  I doubt you go to a Ford dealership expecting to get comprehensive information about all brands of cars, much less to be able to buy a Toyota.




Demo days are in no way true club fittings. The appointment doesn’t last long enough, the “fitter” isn’t, and it’s one brand, likely with limited options even within that line.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones