Range Finders and Visual Uncertainty

[Thomas Dai]

I recall a Payne Stewart story. He was quizzing his very experienced carry as to why he always gave full-shot yardages at round numbers or 5 yard gap intervals. The caddy replied that it was because he never seen a player who was good enough that any closer differential made any difference. Guess players, both professionals and amateurs, have got better over the decades. Probably their fitness routines.
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[John Kavanaugh]

Actually it is the range finder that teaches you exact distance. It’s easier to repeat an 80mph swing than you think.

[David Ober]

The yardage books Mark Long makes in tour have more of the information players want than a laser can provide


The lasers however will help in situations far off line or when angles (for yardage purposes) are difficult to figure.


The accuracy of the books has IMO made the caddies lives a lot easier in practice rounds.
The amount of data, accuracy, and options for layups, tee shots etc allow a player to play a practice round with virtually all the i formation ready to go.  It’s really amazing
While I understand many do not like this, as a player, I would gather all the same information in practice rounds and have it for tournament rounds anyway.  These books allow players to focus on how to play shots and holes for management during the event.

[size=78%]I don’t believe the lasers should slow things anymore than it already (sadly) is.  In fact, it could help in some situations when finding markers is difficult [/size]

^^^^^This.


They already know all the carry distances, etc.


I'm an amateur and before I play a big (for me) tournament, I make sure I either have an accurate tour yardage book, or I go on GoogleEarth to get yardages on any "strange" holes where I might be unsure of a line, etc.


And when I do have a yardage book, I get the same amount of "comfort" over a strange carry as if I had a laser -- it just takes me longer to get that comfort because I have to do silly things like pace off from the back of the back tee box for carry distances and the like.


Just let them use lasers.

[Tim Gavrich]

And when I do have a yardage book, I get the same amount of "comfort" over a strange carry as if I had a laser -- it just takes me longer to get that comfort because I have to do silly things like pace off from the back of the back tee box for carry distances and the like.


Just let them use lasers.

I think this is where I'm at, too. I don't see the distance a laser rangefinder gives me as substantially more comforting than a good yardage book would give me.


Besides, there are times where I'll laser a flag as 170 yards and someone standing beside me lasers it at 172. Which of our lasers is correct? In the end, it doesn't matter if we're used to trusting in our own equipment. The utility is in gathering that information a little faster.


Will it end up speeding up play? Maybe a little, but as seems to be the case with a lot of things, the issues are structural, and those occasional gains of 3 to 5 to 15 seconds are just not going to add up to very much on golf courses that have multiple groups on several holes.

[JESII]

I will say, they certainly provide the opportunity to speed up play...

[Lou_Duran]

I recall a Payne Stewart story. He was quizzing his very experienced carry as to why he always gave full-shot yardages at round numbers or 5 yard gap intervals. The caddy replied that it was because he never seen a player who was good enough that any closer differential made any difference. Guess players, both professionals and amateurs, have got better over the decades. Probably their fitness routines.
Atb

Just hitting the dart board is a challenge for me.  So should I view the smaller circles and the bullseye as superfluous?   


I think Greg Norman said that he could control where his irons (I'm assuming the shorter ones) landed to within 2' of the true distance.  Even if he was kidding himself, I think that the science (and I don't mean in the current use of the word) would support that focusing on smaller targets leads to superior results than aiming widely.


Having officiated numerous qualifiers and tournaments where distance measuring devices sans the slope function were allowed, they clearly reduce pacing and guessing.  The water has gone over that dam long ago.  I personally use a golf watch which depends on the course being mapped properly AND the hole location sheet being accurate (seldom is since the holes are often cut in poor light by maintenance staff poorly trained for the task).  One of my partners uses a range finder and we are invariably 2-5+ yards off.  For my level of play, that's close enough.


As to pace of play, tournament officials could be much more aggressive in the time allowed to finish a round (4:45 for a three ball is usually highly excessive) and in keeping play moving.  I know that avoiding conflict is highly valued, but the complaints I used to get as an official were 10+ to 1 in the direction of slow play vs. being rushed (there is "science" suggesting that the task expands to the time alloted/Parkinson's Law).  Combined with good reflectors on the flagsticks and stressing ready play, holding everything else equal, the pace of play is improved through the proper use of distance measuring devices.

[Peter Pallotta]

The Tour knows that fans would rather watch a Dustin Johnson with a range finder than a nameless caddy with a yardage book. 

[Mike_Clayton]

One thing rangefinders don't do is speed up play. For a start, how can it when you have to wait until the group ahead puts the flag in before you even get a number?

I laser people on the green all the time. It won't be the exact yardage, but you can tell if they're standing near the front of the green or by a bunker lip or something to confirm some numbers, or at least get in the ballpark. Then laser the flag when it's in, adjust by, say, three yards, and go.

Erik,


Which is what we would do- but ODC pros are always going to want to know the exact number.
I dont have a view either way - the game has bigger issues than this one - but given a choice no one is using laser over a book

[jeffwarne]

One thing rangefinders don't do is speed up play. For a start, how can it when you have to wait until the group ahead puts the flag in before you even get a number?

I laser people on the green all the time. It won't be the exact yardage, but you can tell if they're standing near the front of the green or by a bunker lip or something to confirm some numbers, or at least get in the ballpark. Then laser the flag when it's in, adjust by, say, three yards, and go.

Erik,


Which is what we would do- but ODC pros are always going to want to know the exact number.
I dont have a view either way - the game has bigger issues than this one - but given a choice no one is using laser over a book

Agreed. But having both will help when playing from unmarked terrain(at least for those conscientious enough to care)

[Mike_Clayton]

One thing rangefinders don't do is speed up play. For a start, how can it when you have to wait until the group ahead puts the flag in before you even get a number?

I laser people on the green all the time. It won't be the exact yardage, but you can tell if they're standing near the front of the green or by a bunker lip or something to confirm some numbers, or at least get in the ballpark. Then laser the flag when it's in, adjust by, say, three yards, and go.

Erik,


Which is what we would do- but OCD pros are always going to want to know the exact number.
I dont have a view either way - the game has bigger issues than this one - but given a choice no one is using laser over a book

[Ally Mcintosh]

Are they getting rid of caddies then? Surely they don’t need both.

[Sean_A]

Are they getting rid of caddies then? Surely they don’t need both.

There's a tradeoff. Bag carried or range finder 👀

Ciao

[jeffwarne]

Are they getting rid of caddies then? Surely they don’t need both.

Oh you'll still need the caddie, for 45 seconds of must see TV chatter about how much room there is between the front of the green and the pin, what's it playing,wind elevation etc..
I'm always amazed at how the announcers glorify this and evidently many viewers enjoy it 

[Jim_Coleman]

   I use a range finder and find I can usually guess the yardage of anything under 200 yards quite accurately.  I never use a range finder from inside 80 yards and am amazed at people that do.  Knowing the exact distance is much less valuable to me than knowing whether the pin is front,
middle or back because of the number of uphill shots to greens where I play.  That being said, there is nothing about a range finder that detracts from the game, any more than carts do. 

[Daryl David]

For a start, how can it when you have to wait until the group ahead puts the flag in before you even get a number?

I have noticed a small speed up in play since the Covid rules have required flags to be left in. Everyone in the group has already scoped yardage and pulled a club before the group ahead leaves the green.

[Jeff Schley]

Are they getting rid of caddies then? Surely they don’t need both.

Oh you'll still need the caddie, for 45 seconds of must see TV chatter about how much room there is between the front of the green and the pin, what's it playing,wind elevation etc..
I'm always amazed at how the announcers glorify this and evidently many viewers enjoy it 

Wasn't it refreshing to see the match at Seminole last year with the 4 golfers all slugging their own bags around and grabbing a club and going?  Wondeful and much rather see that. Perhaps the TV networks don't want this speed as it wouldn't allow enough commercial time to pay for all the talking heads?

[Jeff Schley]

Byeong Hun An (Ben An) feels strongly about it.

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2021/02/09/rangefinders-gps-pga-tour-ben-an/

[Thomas Dai]

Should things develop further rangefinder and akin wise within the elite and pro game then presumably the local rule possibilities mentioned in the recent R&A/USGA distance report could also be used to counter them? Same with other aspects of the game too.
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