Andalusia Masters @ Valderama

[Dan Delaney 🐮]

A Good Friday to the Threehouae,


I had cervical spinal fusion Wednesday, so naturally I’m taking full advantage of EuroTour coverage on early monringa.


My recollection of the course stems most from the 1999 Ryder cup and the bickering back and forth for how the EU Team was setting the course up.


What I don’t recall was just how difficult the course plays in general... they just mentioned opening round course average was just under 75, munch higher then Dubai season opening at just under 73.


They seem to still be creditin[size=78%]g RTJ for the design? But it does seem there’s been some heavy tweaking since. Visually the course presents well on TV, by find myself wondering what treehouse feels about every day play?[/size]

[Niall C]

Afternoon everyone, I have a troublesome ingrowing toenail.

With regards to Valderamma, my one and only play of the course was about 20 years ago. At the time it was still very much considered a RTJ design IIRC. If I also recall correctly a large part of the course was through a grove of olive trees that were largely protected. I'm assuming that any changes since wouldn't have involved dramatic changes to the routing, would that be correct ?

Other recollections are that the par 3's were fair to good, the par 5's were awful but the par 4's provided the highlights. In particular the need to be in the correct part of the fairway just to have a shot. More than once I found myself on the fairway but stymied by a tree. I haven't seen any of the television coverage, is that still the case ?

Niall

[Adam Lawrence]

Afternoon everyone, I have a troublesome ingrowing toenail.

With regards to Valderamma, my one and only play of the course was about 20 years ago. At the time it was still very much considered a RTJ design IIRC. If I also recall correctly a large part of the course was through a grove of olive trees that were largely protected. I'm assuming that any changes since wouldn't have involved dramatic changes to the routing, would that be correct ?

Other recollections are that the par 3's were fair to good, the par 5's were awful but the par 4's provided the highlights. In particular the need to be in the correct part of the fairway just to have a shot. More than once I found myself on the fairway but stymied by a tree. I haven't seen any of the television coverage, is that still the case ?

Niall

Not olives. Cork oaks. I remember visiting Valderrama when Felipe Patino, son of Jimmy, was club president. I asked him about tree clearing, and he agreed that the course was too narrow. "But you have to think a lot harder before cutting down a 300 year old cork oak than you do before cutting down a 20 year old pine tree," he said. Which I thought was fair enough.

[JESII]

I love watching events at Valderama...and it's 100% because of the Cork Trees and how they present on TV. The course may well be too narrow (I've never been there) but it's unique in my view of worldwide competitive golf viewing.

[Dan Delaney 🐮]

I’m with you Jim and Adam - I think the corks are very cool. Almost as good as a cypress from anaesthics perspective. Just many many more of them.


Niall, hope a quick soak and a piece of tape gets you back playing tomorrow or Sunday.

[Terry Lavin]

I was at the Ryder Cup and had a blast watching the golf and marveling at the cork trees. Can’t say that I was enthralled by the course design, but Marbella is one of the most beautiful places I’ve ever visited.

[Niall C]

Niall, hope a quick soak and a piece of tape gets you back playing tomorrow or Sunday.

 

[Adrian_Stiff]

The beers good and the sun almost always shines.


The first good hole is the 4th. 5 and 6 are pretty good, 10 is nice and the two par 3s on the back 9 are good.


If it wasn't for the condition, it would not make the top 10 in Andalusia.

[Niall C]

Adam,


Thank you for the correction. It's perhaps academic but I thought the reason for preserving the trees was as much regulatory as anything else. FWIW I don't recall the course being narrow even though I was blocked out a couple of times. I was just more struck by the disparity between the quality of the par 4's, which used natural contours/features well and the par 5's which were shocking. I recall one of the par 5's where the slope of the fairway left to right was such that if you landed a ball in the left hand rough and it bounced on to the fairway, it would then run down into the right hand rough. Another had a waterfall feature at the green that was beyond shite.


From what I recall (vague memory) the par 3's were routed well which is to say nothing wrong with the tee and green locations however the greens were just more or less circular with no real angle to them. I think I'm right in saying RTJ did Spyglass as well and the greens there are similar. Is that fair comment ? (only played each once)


Niall

[Tommy Williamsen]

I have to say that on my one and only plat of it I loved the course. The gnarly nature of the cork trees helped make it unique for the eastern US boy. I thought the par fives were excellent and the par fours varied and interesting. I also felt that RTJ's routing took full advantage of the rolling hills. I only remember one par three. It was on the back side and was a long downhill hole.

[Niall C]

Tommy


I think you and I should get together and play a game sometime. The conversation on what makes a good par 5 would be interesting !!    Next time in Scotland give me a call.


Niall

[Tommy Williamsen]

Tommy


I think you and I should get together and play a game sometime. The conversation on what makes a good par 5 would be interesting !!    Next time in Scotland give me a call.


Niall

There are only three par fives. I don't usually worry about waterfalls. In fact I don't remember it.It must be the fourth hole.[/size] [/size][size=78%] I didn't have the same experience of a ball running off the fairway either. That might be number 11. I remember that I felt the second shots required some thought about placement. Designing a par five where the second shot isn't more than a three wood hit as far as I can can be tough to do. I even liked the 17th with its predictable water in front of the green. I thought they were fun.[/size]

[Matt_Cohn]

I think I'm right in saying RTJ did Spyglass as well and the greens there are similar. Is that fair comment?

Never played Valderrama, but the greens of the 3's at Spyglass all have angles and are not at all round.

[Niall C]

Matt


These days my memory isn't the best so I had a look on google maps and you are correct. I'd forgotten about the one after the funky short par 4 with the long thin green at an angle. I think that was the 4th so the par 3 was the 5th. definitely had a bit of shape to it. The 3rd (?) with the drop shot appears roughly triangular but fairly symmetrical. The one however that I was thinking of was the one in the trees, again downhill with water to the front, that's fairly oval. In truth, wasn't impressed with the par 3's and bar the 5th still not sure there was much to them.


On the same trip played the par 3 course at Olympic and my friends and I all agreed that pretty well any of the holes on that course were better than par 3's at Spyglass. Am I being too harsh ?


Niall

[Lou_Duran]

Valderama was being renovated in advance of the Ryder Cup when I was on an assignment in Spain.  Played many of the courses in the Costa del Sol including Sotogrande.  Aren't the two very similar? 

[Mark_Fine]

I have played the course multiple times. It is all about the cork trees (bunkers in the sky) as RTJ called them.  The first hole sets the stage for what is ahead, a cork oak right next to the green making the entrance/approach literally about ten yards wide.  If you thought Harbour Town is tight you have no idea what tight really is   


Course is also known for impeccable conditions but I was more impressed with the trees and how RTJ used them.