Omitting the 12th hole on the Country Club composite course

[Dan_Callahan]

When the Country Club hosts big events such as the Ryder Cup, US Am and presumably the US Open, their composite course routing skips the 12th hole. Curious if anyone knows why. Do they think it's too easy? Or does it not work within the flow of the round/routing?


The 12th is hands down my favorite hole on the main course, so it feels strange to see it passed by at big events.

[Matt_Cohn]

Which hole are you referring to? In Ran’s review, the 12th is the long uphill par five.

[MCirba]

That was my question, too.   Wasn't the 12th of the original composite course made up of two holes from Flynn's Primrose course merged together in a long dogleg left par four?

[Michael Baity]

I think Dan is referring to the short par 3 twelfth hole of the Clyde/Squirrel routing.  This was not included in the 2013 US Amateur composite Ran highlighted, but will be in the 2023 US Open Composite.  I believe the fourth hole is being taken out to make room for it.

[Dan_Callahan]

I think Dan is referring to the short par 3 twelfth hole of the Clyde/Squirrel routing.  This was not included in the 2013 US Amateur composite Ran highlighted, but will be in the 2023 US Open Composite.  I believe the fourth hole is being taken out to make room for it.

Yes, when you play the everyday 18-hole course, the 12th is a fantastic 130-yard drop-shot par 3. Tiny green surrounded by deep bunkers. Feels almost like the Postage Stamp. It's a great hole. When they host championships and go to the composite course, the 12th is eliminated in favor of the other holes they snag from the Primrose. Just wondering if anyone knows why the 12th (of all holes) is skipped. Or maybe I have a higher opinion of it than others ...?

[MCirba]

Got it Dan...thanks.    I do think it's a cool hole and somewhat interestingly given past discussions here it's named "redan" and has been since inception, I believe.

But count me as one who is disappointed that the 4th will be taken out of the US Open routing.   Wow, what a wild, wonderful hole that is almost unique in modern American golf.

[WilliamN]

I believe in the NEW championship routing, the 11th hole is #12 from the main course (the short downhill part 3).  It has been redone and despite its short length, it is more difficult than it looks with a very tricky green.  The 12th champ hole is main 13 and the 13th on the champ course is the combo hole where they combine the #1 and #2 from the primrose course.


#4 from the main course is not in the championship routing

[Dan_Callahan]

I didn't realize the championship composite routing is changing for the US Open. Psyched #12 will be used, but now bummed #4 will be skipped. That might be my second favorite hole out there! Would also be kind of fun to see #2 played as a drivable par 4 (rather than a par 3), but I imagine there really isn't enough room to push the tees back any farther and 290 yards is less than driver for most pros these days.

[SPDB]

I believe in the NEW championship routing, the 11th hole is #12 from the main course (the short downhill part 3).  It has been redone and despite its short length, it is more difficult than it looks with a very tricky green.  The 12th champ hole is main 13 and the 13th on the champ course is the combo hole where they combine the #1 and #2 from the primrose course.


#4 from the main course is not in the championship routing

The changes described above are accurate, but the hole numbering is off. Because #4 (main) is being omitted, #11 main becomes #8 composite and #12 main is #9 composite. #13 main is #10 composite; #1 and #2 of the Primrose combine to make #11 composite. #8 and #9 of the Primrose, respectively, are #12 & #13 Composite. From there the #14 composite rejoins #14 main.


One other neat little aspect that showed up in the 2013 Amateur is that another Primrose hole fell off the composite course.  #10 composite used to use the tee from #3 Primrose, but since the '99 Ryder Cup, Hanse added several tee boxes to the #13 main.

[PCCraig]

I wonder why folks find the 12th (on the members course) to be such a strong hole. It's fine, but it's a pretty straight forward 50* wedge to a small green. Pretty, but straightforward.


The 4th is a much more interesting hole, in my opinion. But I'm guessing they aren't using it as they moved back the tees so far on #5 that players would have to walk backward about 250 yards vs. maybe 75 yards from the 3rd green.

[SPDB]

I wonder why folks find the 12th (on the members course) to be such a strong hole. It's fine, but it's a pretty straight forward 50* wedge to a small green. Pretty, but straightforward.


The 4th is a much more interesting hole, in my opinion. But I'm guessing they aren't using it as they moved back the tees so far on #5 that players would have to walk backward about 250 yards vs. maybe 75 yards from the 3rd green.

I don't disagree with you re: 4 vs. 12, but by eliminating the 4th and including the 12th, you're actually eliminating 2 awkward walks (the walk back from 4 green to 5 tee(which is almost the entire 4th hole) and the walk past the 12th hole). Gil has expanded the 12th green, so I think there will be some interesting and dicey pin positions.

[Amol Yajnik]

I didn't realize the championship composite routing is changing for the US Open. Psyched #12 will be used, but now bummed #4 will be skipped. That might be my second favorite hole out there! Would also be kind of fun to see #2 played as a drivable par 4 (rather than a par 3), but I imagine there really isn't enough room to push the tees back any farther and 290 yards is less than driver for most pros these days.

With the way that the pros hit it now, there will be a drivable par 4, it will be the 5th hole of the championship layout (6th hole of the main routing).


The 4th hole of the championship routing (5th hole of the main routing) has a new back tee which will make the walk from the 3rd green to that tee even shorter.


The drop shot par 3 will be awesome.  I played it earlier this summer and the green that Hanse has built there is very interesting.  Front left in particular is such a small section on that green, it will be very fun to watch.

[John Ezekowitz]

While #4 Main is a very fun and unique short four, I think that they struggle to find four pinnable locations at US Open green speeds. I believe it is the smallest green on the property and one of, if not the, most sloped from back to front. That plus the new back tees on 5 make the decision an easy one from a routing standpoint.


I think it would be fascinating if they switched #2 main between a par 3 (as it played in the 2013 Am) and a par 4 (as it plays for the members) during the tournament.

[Ben Stephens]

Proposed layout by Hanse Golf Design from their website


https://www.hansegolfdesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/The-Country-Club-Routing.png


 

[Paul Rudovsky]

In reply to all of the above, there were four reasons for dropping #4 main and inserting #12 main in the Composite for the 2022 US Open (listed not in order of importance):


1.  the back tee on #5 main is now so far back (will play about 510 yards) that it is only about a 60 yard walk from the 3rd green instead of about 175 yards back from the 4th green


2.  inserting 12 main eliminates a long walk from #11 main (Himalayas) green to 13th tee (about 225-250 yards)


3.  inserting 12 added substantially to the variety of par 3's on the composite...and the green complex was totally rebuilt by Hanse last summer


4.  #4 main is an outstanding match play hole...but in stroke play, with disaster awaiting behind and to the left of a tiny green that is completely blind from the tee, just about everyone in the 2013 Am hit medium iron and short wedge into green.  Made no sense to risk a real change of bogey or double (or worse) in stroke play...in match play many tried to drive it.


The change in hole order was to "even out" the two nines.  During the Am the yardage was approx 3400 on the front (par 34) and 4000 (par 36) on the back, and if the same hole order was used again (M1-M2-M3-M5-M6-M7-M8-M11-M12...M13-Prim1&2-Prim8-Prim9-M14-M15-M16-M17-M18 the nine would have been Front 3200 yds (par 33) and Back 4100 yds (par 37).  With the new routing yields Front 3700 yds (par 35) and Back 3600 yds (par 35) ...yardages are approx and obviously rounded

[Greg Smith]

I am confused.  If I understand correctly, this is the routing sequence being discussed:

1    4     (Clyde/Squirrel 1st -- Racetrack)
2    3     (Clyde/Squirrel 2nd -- Cottage; as a par 3 -- but shown on Hanse map as a par 4)
3    4     (Clyde/Squirrel 3rd -- Pond)      ** skip hole:  C/S 4th, Hospital  **
4    4     (Clyde/Squirrel 5th -- Newton)
5    4     (Clyde/Squirrel 6th -- Baker)
6    3     (Clyde/Squirrel 7th -- Plateau)
7    4     (Clyde/Squirrel 8th -- Corner)      ** skip holes: C/S 9th, Paddock; C/S 10th, Maiden **
8    5     (Clyde/Squirrel 11th -- Himalayas)
9    3     (Clyde/Squirrel 12th -- Redan)   

Out, 34.

10   4    (Clyde/Squirrel 13th -- Stockton)
11   4    (Primrose 1st & 2nd, combined)
12   5    (Primrose 8th, was a long 5 in the Am)
13   4    (Primrose 9th)
14   5    (Clyde/Squirrel 14th -- Quarry)
15   4    (Clyde/Squirrel 15th -- Liverpool)
16   3    (Clyde/Squirrel 16th -- Clyde)
17   4    (Clyde/Squirrel 17th -- Elbow)
18   4    (Clyde/Squirrel 18th -- Home)

In, 37.  Total par, 71.

[Paul Rudovsky]

I am confused.  If I understand correctly, this is the routing sequence being discussed:

1    4     (Clyde/Squirrel 1st -- Racetrack)
2    3     (Clyde/Squirrel 2nd -- Cottage; as a par 3 -- but shown on Hanse map as a par 4)
3    4     (Clyde/Squirrel 3rd -- Pond)      ** skip hole:  C/S 4th, Hospital  **
4    4     (Clyde/Squirrel 5th -- Newton)
5    4     (Clyde/Squirrel 6th -- Baker)
6    3     (Clyde/Squirrel 7th -- Plateau)
7    4     (Clyde/Squirrel 8th -- Corner)      ** skip holes: C/S 9th, Paddock; C/S 10th, Maiden **
8    5     (Clyde/Squirrel 11th -- Himalayas)
9    3     (Clyde/Squirrel 12th -- Redan)   

Out, 34.

10   4    (Clyde/Squirrel 13th -- Stockton)
11   4    (Primrose 1st & 2nd, combined)
12   5    (Primrose 8th, was a long 5 in the Am)
13   4    (Primrose 9th)
14   5    (Clyde/Squirrel 14th -- Quarry)
15   4    (Clyde/Squirrel 15th -- Liverpool)
16   3    (Clyde/Squirrel 16th -- Clyde)
17   4    (Clyde/Squirrel 17th -- Elbow)
18   4    (Clyde/Squirrel 18th -- Home)

In, 37.  Total par, 71.

Greg--

Sorry if I confused.  The routing in my prior post was what the routing would have been if TCC had dropped #4 Main (Main = Clyde/Squirrel) and added #12 Main. 

First note that Himalyas will play as a par 4...just as it did in the 2013 AM. 

Second, note that the routing that is being planned is:

Holes 1-7:  Clyde/Squirrel 1-3, followed by C/S 5-8
Holes 8 & 9: Primrose 1&2 combined, followed by Primrose 8 (long par 5)

Hole 10: Primrose 9
Holes 11-13: C/S 11, 12 , 13 (with #11 Himalayas playing as a par 4 as it did in the 2013 Am)
Holes 14-18: C/S 14-18

Resulting par is 35-35 = 70
Resulting yardage approx 3700 + 3625 = 7325
 

[Greg Smith]

Ahhhhhhh.... that's the clarification I was looking for!  That's a pretty cool routing.  So, from 11 onward it follows the normal C/S sequence.  Now I get it.

[Matthew Rose]

I wasn't sure how that was gonna work but I had a look at it.

It actually gives you one par-five and two par-threes on both nines this way, so I guess it makes all kinds of sense if you are into symmetry 


More than anything else I'm excited to see the drop shot hole.

[Adam G]

This new ordering makes sense, but any intel on what they are going to do for spectator/player flow at the crossover between 8 main and 1 Primrose and then 9 primrose to 11 main? The one downside to this new sequencing is that that  area seems like a total traffic jam!


Also are they playing this new ordering of holes right now when they play the composite?

[Dan_Callahan]

Let’s just hope that by then, spectator traffic flow is actually something that needs to be planned for ...

[Paul Rudovsky]

Sorry but another correction...this based on the preliminary scorecard:

Front nine:
1-3      Clyde/Squirrel 1-3 (with #2 playing as par 3)
4-7      Clyde/Squirrel 5-8
8         Clyde/Squirrel 14 (playing as par 5...note that it was a par 4 in '13 Am, but tee extended back to 567 yds)
9         Primrose 9

Back nine:
10-12  Clyde/Squirrel 11-13 (with Himalayas...10 Champ (11 C/S) playing as par 4 as it did in '13 Am...513 yards)
13-14  Primrose 1&2 and Primrose 8 (these were holes 11 and 12 on 2013 Am Champ course)
15-18  Clyde/Squirrel 15-18

This should minimize "traffic" issues around Champ tees 10, 13, and 8. 

Result is a front consisting of 6 par 4's, 2 par 3's (#2 and 6), and one par 5 (#9)...and back consisting of 6 par 4's, 2 par 3's (#11 and 16) and one par 5 (#14).  35 - 35 = 70 and approx yardage of 3600 - 3800 = 7400

[Matthew Rose]

I whipped up this little map.

[Paul Rudovsky]

I whipped up this little map.

Matthew--

Your map is perfect!!  Well done.  The practice area during the US Open will be when Clyde/Squirrel #9 and #10 are on the map...just north of Championship #6 and #7 (note that your map is oriented so that North is located where the words:

The Country Club
     Brookline
  Massachusetts

are located towards upper left...pointing to these words from Champ green #7)

[peter_mcknight]

Good afternoon...

New scorecard with hole 11 added:
 

2022
TCC ALT
495
225
465
515
310
200
400
565
435
515
140
480
460
625
500
185
375
440
7330
70