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Thomas Dai

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The importance of temptation within golf
« on: September 05, 2020, 12:17:42 PM »
As follow-on from the thread about ego .... the importance of temptation within golf.
Pretty crucial? No importance?
Thoughts?

Atb

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: The importance of temptation within golf
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2020, 12:37:46 PM »
I think it is essential. Some is designed by the architect. How much of the water/waste area can I take on with the tee shot? Can I carry it far enough to get to the green or should I lay back?
Some is of my own making. Can I hit a low cut out of the woods or should I just pitch out?
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: The importance of temptation within golf
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2020, 12:47:26 PM »
It depends on your view of what golf is all about.


To hear some good players tell it, you'd think golf is only about rewarding the guy who hits the longest and most accurate shots.  If that were really all there was to it, you could play it all on Trackman now, and never have to go outdoors.


Most golfers accept that being outdoors and dealing with the vagaries of a golf course is part of the deal, and for many, that's the more appealing part of it.  It's certainly the part that drives travel and tourism, and the part that people can fall in love with.


The question is how do you build a golf course that works for both groups?


The strategic school of designers has emphasized that you can't punish the average golfer's shot too much, because they aren't good enough to constantly be dealing with hazards.  Instead, designers like Tom Simpson declared that hazards should be placed to punish the "almost great" shots of the best players, and that would be enough to defend the course for everyone else.


Pete Dye went a step further, and insisted the way to defend the course was partly psychological -- that you want to get inside the best players' heads, otherwise they will overpower any course you can build.  The best way to do that is to tempt them, because what will frustrate them more than anything else is if they hit the ball well, but a tactical error means it's not good enough.


Average golfers, of course, are not immune to the same error, but the saving grace is that their susceptibility to it is NOT completely correlated to their ability as golfers.  That's what gives the wily veteran his edge.

Peter Pallotta

Re: The importance of temptation within golf
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2020, 12:52:18 PM »
As Oscar Wilde said: "I can resist anything but temptation".
Temptation demands a choice. Our choices lead to consequences. How we react/deal with those consequences defines our experience and shapes our character. And out of our character emerge further choices -- in either a virtuous or vicious circle: someone shoots 72, someone else shoots 106. But either way, we get to have a burger and a beer afterwards and come back tomorrow with a fresh start, a new round, as if nothing has happened. That's what's great about golf, i.e. exactly like real life, and yet not like real life at all!

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: The importance of temptation within golf
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2020, 02:19:24 PM »
I think temptation is essential. Not on every shot, or even necessarily on even half of the shots a golfer will face, but now and then, varying levels of temptation are important.

Sometimes it's as simple as how tight of a line you want to take on a dogleg, and other times it's whether to go for a 240-yard carry over a lake to a green. Sometimes it's carrying a bunker, or even what club to take off the tee - driver, 3W, or hybrid? Or how close you want to throw a wedge knowing a difficult up and down awaits if you miss.

No temptation golf is boring golf, often.

Temptation is closely tied to risk/reward, IMO. They may even be the same thing, or two sides of the same coin, or something. What's to "tempt" you if not a reward? That's why I think golf courses that are just so far over the top that they don't actually tempt a smart golfer because the risk greatly outweighs the reward are more boring than courses with only a few spots of appropriately balanced risk-reward.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2020, 02:21:36 PM by Erik J. Barzeski »
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, Instructor/Coach, and Lifetime Student of the Game.

I generally ignore Rob, Tim, Garland, and Chris.

Sean_A

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Re: The importance of temptation within golf
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2020, 03:38:16 PM »
As follow-on from the thread about ego .... the importance of temptation within golf.
Pretty crucial? No importance?
Thoughts?

Atb

Drop all the willy nilly talk. Temptation is the reason why recovery shots are essential. The two go hand in glove.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Ken Moum

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Re: The importance of temptation within golf
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2020, 02:07:34 AM »
"Sometimes it's as simple as how tight of a line you want to take on a dogleg, and other times it's whether to go for a 240-yard carry over a lake to a green. Sometimes it's carrying a bunker, or even what club to take off the tee - driver, 3W, or hybrid? Or how close you want to throw a wedge knowing a difficult up and down awaits if you miss."


And sometimes, for a 73-year old with a 16.something index, it's deciding whether to hit a lob wedge to that short-side hole or putt the damned thing on the green and take your chances.


Every tempting choice give us the chance to do something amazing, or be rewarded for taking the "smart" option.


Without temptation, as Tom said, we could play on Trackman. Which is why I have all but given up watching pro golf, except for those majors where the choices set their brains on fire.
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: The importance of temptation within golf
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2020, 12:17:19 PM »

And sometimes, for a 73-year old with a 16.something index, it's deciding whether to hit a lob wedge to that short-side hole or putt the damned thing on the green and take your chances.



Very good point.  Strategy is in the details, and sometimes, in the very small-scale details.  Which is completely missed by a lot of designers!


I have been trying today to decide whether to do a lot of work on one of the holes at St. Patrick's for a feature which will only lure in the foolish [though it will also give goosebumps to many players when they see it].  My feeling is that if we don't do it, everyone will take the boring "safe" route, but opening up this other side will get them thinking.  The addition of the hazard will not scare everyone away, but draw some over there for no good reason!


Guess I'd better do it, then.

Ken Moum

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Re: The importance of temptation within golf
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2020, 03:33:53 PM »
Strategy is in the details, and sometimes, in the very small-scale details.


Do what you do best.


It's altogether too easy to make a course hard for guys like me, but making it interesting is apparently almost impossible.


K
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010