[Mike Hendren]

Preston Trail, Lakewood and Brook Hollow seem to fly under the radar on this site.  I'd welcome your take on any of these three courses simply out of curiosity.

Thanks,
Bogey

[Tom_Doak]

I've only been to Brook Hollow, just as they were finishing up their renovation twenty years ago.  It's the closest thing I've seen in Texas to a classic East Coast parkland course, which is not surprising considering Tillinghast built it.  It would be a mid-second-tier course in NY or Philadelphia, though.


Preston Trail remains quite private, especially with a former President among the members.

[Lou_Duran]

The three courses I consider peers in Dallas are BH, Lakewood, and Northwood.  All three are older courses which have been under the knife numerous times.  I could argue any combination of the three.  Preston Trail is a completely different animal.  Some knowledgeable golfers believe it is among the top 5 in the state.  Others think it may not make the top 5 in Dallas. 

[mike_beene]

I have been a member at Lakewood for 25 years so I know it better than the others. The downside is that the property is tight and there are a few holes with out of bounds. The things I love about it are the green sites and bunkering. Although much of the original 1912 layout remains, the bunkering is essentially a redo or reinterpretation by Coore and Crenshaw who have also moved several greens and redone them all. Also like the removal of rough around greens and bunkers that are not surrounded by high grass. Brook Hollow is similar with the best soil in Dallas, a sandy strain. I guess a few holes repeat, but it is a really neat old course and feels like an escape from the surrounding area. I haven't played the Northwood redo but there is a good course that is always fun. Probably played a 100 rounds there over the years. Preston Trail is a nice place with some hills.Some of the holes are copies of holes from other courses, and I think Mr. Nelson had some influence. PT is generally a second club and all three of the others have members there so there is a lot of back and forth. Lakewood is my favorite but Brook Hollow a close second.It is all better than most of you think.

[mike_beene]

They are all par 71, as are a number of other area courses.

[Lou_Duran]

Mike- If I am not mistaken, for the sticks- the back tees- par is 70 at Northwood (the backs on #7 are actually in front of the second set and played as a par 4, I think reflecting the 1952 US Open teeing area).  If I am not mistaken, that's where Mr. Hogan hit into the dirt road which is now the 4-lane Alpha Rd, and lost his lead.  As a par 4, it is an extremely difficult hole.


When Brook Hollow completes its latest renovation, will it prompt your leaders to redo yours?  I doubt that C & C did as much work this last time than Tripp Davis did at BH.  I've seen the general direction/plans for BH and I predict great success.  That the membership seemed disappointed that more trees weren't being taken out was very illuminating/encouraging.

[mike_beene]

Lou, you are correct. Has the 4/5 hole at Northwood switched to number 7. six is the awkward drive up the hill. It is funny that when you play the back your markers are a yard in front of the blue tees and par changes. It is a three shorter for me because I am scared to go right. Do you like the changes? looks like they moved 16 to the creek and a friend who is a member said the 17 green was going 50 yards back to the edge of property and still on the creek.The south side holes are really good and I like the crossover routing. The tunnels not so much. They had a US Open. I say that is really a cool thing.
I bet Brook Hollow will be fine. The soil there is such a great break from our clay soils. We are ten years from needing greens I think. The only real change might be some type of sub air since we seem to enjoy spending. Coore talking our fine supt. Mike Plummer into watering less and the club giving him the freedom to keep greens at 10 on weekdays and 11 Friday and Saturday has shut up the Bermuda grass lovers. We may have a zosia fight because some people love that. Our 419 is fine. I hope we leave it all alone for a few years.

[mike_beene]

Lou,one more thing. Coore and Crenshaw would like to change 16 from a 4 to a 3 which eliminate a so so shortish par 4 for a Royal Melbourne copy and let's 11 have a more flowing wide fairway with better angles on both shots. A 36-34 offends some, 5 par 3 holes offends some, but the kicker is the 5 some wolf game doesn't want 16, the first big hole, as a par 3. Some might say we are a bunch of idiots, but I have never said that. I don't want to get kicked out as there is no easy admittance left. Why do people like C and C tolerate us? Sure am glad we do. Someone wants to move the first tee to the roof. I am sure we will do something to keep up with the Jones.

[Mike Hendren]

Thanks for the info gents.  I was scheduled to play Lakewood back in the 80's but cancelled after I turned in my resignation at InterFirst, a NLE if there ever was one.  Absolutely love the neighborhood and its plethora of Craftsman homes.  Also, a good time was frequently had at the nearby Boardwalk Beach Club, dancing the shag and drinking cold draft beer. 

Mrs. worked for a doc that was a member at Preston Trail who got me a signed photograph of The Mick.  Also indicated Lanny Wadkins routinely carded 64's in money games there. 

T for Texas, T for Tennessee!

Bogey

[Lou_Duran]

MikeB,


I counted one too many fingers.  Northwood's #6 remains as the par 4/5, and it was the hole where Mr. Hogan had his hiccup.  The lake by the green on the left has been greatly reduced eliminating much of the penalty area, so it is now just a difficult drive.  As a par 5, unless the predominant wind is blowing hard, there is no need to hit a driver.  #7 is too long for me from the second tee into the wind and 8 is too long as well going the other way.  #9 is a fantastic long par 3 as is the new #16 (going in opposite directions).  The four road crossings are inevitable as the nine holes on the south side would contain no par 5s, three short 4s, and two long 3s.  I've walked the course a few times and the crossings aren't too bad, they just disrupt the routing a bit much.


As to Lakewood's #16, the walk-back to the tee after the road crossing is problematic, but I like the hole because you have a narrow LZ, wind, up-slope, trees, bunkers and road to contend with off the tee.  It is a short hole, but the tee shot causes me to pucker up.  And the second shot is no pushover.  Hit it past the hole and there is not much gravity to keep the putt on the green.  Hit it short and you have to gauge the slope perfectly with maybe a tendency to leave it well short for fear of having a come-backer.  Am I right?  So, if I was a member, I'd probably prefer leaving it as is.  #17 with the in-course OB on the left is one I've never liked.  For most club players, it is a 3-shot hole.  I've seen juniors hit the drive over the trees and the OB to a 9-iron distance for their second.


Keeping up with the Joneses is a first-world problem.  I have heard members at the three courses question the motivations for the somewhat frequent tweaking.  Older guys don't want to lose 12-18 months- they have less time to amortize the cost and loss of use, though many have other places to play.  Not being a stakeholder, I see it more in the context of seeking improvement.  I play on a course that has been declining slowly since I've been there, and if you are not trying to get better, you are most likely getting worse.     

[Tim Martin]

Where do the Texas guys stand on Shady Oaks? I know there is a great connection to Ben Hogan but don’t know much about the golf course other than it being designed by RTJ Sr.

[mike_beene]

Tim, I imagine Lou has been to Shady more than I have. It is a cool place with room for a nine hole short course where Mr. Hogan used to practice. The property, especially on the front nine is pretty severe and you have a lot of traditional broad shoulder RTJ greens up on hills. Also the front nine goes through houses on a few holes. I think it is more difficult than Colonial and has more variety. Back to back fives and then a three in middle of back. A few long par 3 holes. I think Lou favors Colonial. Not sure what others in area think. Ft. Worth is a good golf town.

[mike_beene]

Lou, there is a back way to get from 15 green to 16 tee which makes it maybe a 150 yard walk;still too far. 16 can ruin you. I once had a medium putt trickle by and then catch the slope and ultimately roll out of bounds. There are 5 or 6 of those greens. I like 17 better now that I heard one tour pro tell another before Open qualifying that it was just 13 at Agusta minus the creek. Whatever...I have been out of bounds on 17 twice in 25 years but if you take it out liability rears its ugly head.

[Lou_Duran]

Re: Shady Oaks, I have it from a good authority, the daughter of the founder, that it was designed with the assistance of RTJ, Ralph Plummer, and Lawrence Hughes.  It was an iterative process with Marvin Leonard having a major part in the routing, siting of greens, and par type.  Jones probably played the major part in the design, but Plummer built it.


SO has been altered many times with C & C attempting a restoration some 15-20 years ago.  Local architect John Colligan worked on the course regularly for years, and probably did a long term master plan.  I am told by a member that Bill Coore was asked to look at the course for a major renovation but he declined the work.  He did recommend Clayton and Oglivie, and they've completed a renovation of the "little 9" as an audition.  I don't have the latest information, but I am pretty sure that they will be redoing the course (may have already started or about to).


I've played the course maybe 10 times over the years, but not for quite awhile.  It was getting better all of the time under John's direction and a very involved in-house staff.  The green complexes, large, firm, fast bent surfaces were its best features.  As Mike Beene notes, there is some difficult terrain especially on the front nine.  It could be a slog for medal tournaments.  I personally prefer Colonial, but SO has a lot of support in the community as the superior club.  It is certainly a more tranquil place.

[Kalen Braley]

Unrelated, but figured you Texas boys would be proud. 


https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/03/21/george-w-bush-says-he-hit-his-first-hole-in-one/?utm_term=.964602acf68c

[mike_beene]

Good view of Trinity Forest in the background. The man loves golf and can't be accused of slow play.

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