Buddy trip to St George, Utah area?

[Andy Hughes]

Considering a trip to St George with the golf buddies for 5 days of golf. Would you recommend it? What courses would you play beyond Sand Hollow and Coral Canyon?  Is Wolf Creek worth adding to the itinerary, considering $$, travel time and course quality?  Where would you stay? What airport would you fly into? Is May a good month for this area?


Appreciate any guidance.

[Blake Conant]

Man, I don't think there's 5 days of golf there.  May would be awesome, but sneak in a day or two of either Vegas or national parks, depending on many.... factors. 

[Kalen Braley]

Yea, 5 days would be a stretch.
 
The closest major airport is Las Vegas which would put you 2 hours away from St. George.  Agreed on Coral Canyon and Sand Hollow as the clear leaders in the clubhouse.  Entrada is nice, but way overpriced....Green Springs and Sky Mountain have a few interesting holes and are inexpensive, but nothing special to play unless you lived there. Wolf Creek will also be really expensive that time of year...I'm still mixed on whether its a good value or not, but it is very different. Spend a day in Zions National Park though, its nothing short of amazing with some jaw dropping trails and sights.
 
So maybe 2-3 days tops in the area, spend the rest at the Grand Canyon or back to Vegas.
 
P.S.  May can be hit or miss weather wise.  Its usually not bad, but can be quite roasty there on occasion that time of year.  (Upper 90s if you're unlucky)

[Stephen Davis]

Here is the St. George golf in the order I prefer it. This is just my preference, others may be different.\
Sand Hollow Championship 18 & Links 9 (don't miss the Links course. It is really fun!)
The Ledges Golf Club
Coral Canyon
Entrada (private and expensive. Have a good 3 hole stretch through black lava rock that is unique)
Sky Mountain
Green Springs
Sunbrook (27 holes)
Dixie Red Hills (9 Hole)


Anything outside of this list, I wouldn't bother playing. A 5 day itinerary might look like this.



Day 1: Sand Hollow 18 & Links 9
Day 2: The Ledges & Entrada
Day 3: Coral Canyon & Sky Mountain
Day 4: Sunbrook (27)
Day 5: Green Springs & Dixie Red Hills 9


To be honest though, I would do the first 3 days and then play Sand Hollow again on days 4 & 5 Hope that helps!

[Kalen Braley]

Thanks for the tip Steve.
 
 The Ledges must be relatively new.  I'll have to take a look the next time I get down that way....

[Steve_ Shaffer]

I agree that Sand Hollow is worth at least 2 plays. Wolf Creek was a "one and done" for me. Coral Canyon was reported here to be in poor condition lately. Never played The Ledges. ..looks interesting.


When is the trip?

[David_Tepper]

What is the weather like in St. George over the winter months (Dec-Jan-Feb)?

[JLahrman]

Skip the golf. Hit the national parks and Vegas.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

The weather in St. George is similar to Las Vegas/ Mesquite. Probably better in February rather than December,January.

[David_Tepper]

Steve -

For those of us who don't know about the weather in Las Vegas (at any time of the year!), what might the temps be in St. George in February. Higher or lower than 50F-60F?

DT

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Looks like spring and fall months  are better:


http://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g57119-s208/St-George:Utah:Weather.And.When.To.Go.html

[Kalen Braley]

Here is some data to digest.
 
Looks like Dec-Feb is very similar, and on avg Dec is a little Drier.
 
1) Avg. Low, 2) Avg High, 3) Record Low, 4) Record high, 5) Avg Rainfall, 6) Avg. Snowfall.

November 33° 63° 12° (1993) 85° (1999) 1.08" 0.1"
December 27° 54° 1° (1990) 74° (1957) 0.77" 1.2"
January 27° 53° -2° (1963) 74° (1971) 1.56" 1.8"
February 32° 60° 2° (1989) 80° (1995) 1.59" 0.8"

[Kalen Braley]

And in case you are considering a trip to St. George this winter...be advised...
 
There is a high likely hood for a strong El Nino this year, which means Southern Utah will see a lot of moisture this winter.... Just something to keep in mind.
 
"There is an approximately 95% chance that El Niño will continue through Northern Hemisphere winter 2015-16"  And a Paragraph down from that "...atmospheric and oceanic anomalies reflect a strong El Niño."
 
http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/analysis_monitoring/enso_advisory/ensodisc.html
 
P.S.  Of course if you're like Pat and think this scientific climate stuff is all nonsense, then please disregard!! 

[Andy Hughes]

Thanks for the comments.


Would this be a viable lineup? 
1. Wednesday @ Wolf Creek
2. Thursday @ Sand Hollow
3. Friday @ the Ledges
4.  Saturday @ Coral Canyon
(or at least those 3 St George's courses over those 3 days in some order).
Are all the courses fun/interesting?




Any suggestions on where a group of 12 would want to stay (aged around 50).
One option seems to be stay in Mesquite for the more lively nightlife and casinos, and then drive 45 minutes to and from the courses each day.  If we stay in or near St George, where would we want to be?

[Kalen Braley]

I'll be heading down next month to play The Ledges so I can tell you more about it after that....
 
Sand Hollow is certainly worth it and Coral Canyon is good, although Steve mentioned conditioning has been sketchy lately at CC.
 
As for St. George, there really isn't much going on there at all.  Its mostly a retirement town with some college kids mixed in.  At least in Mesquite you can do some gambling....

[Brett Wiesley]

Play Sand Hollow at least twice. 
Coral Canyon when I played last was a disaster, poor poor condition.  Partly due to prior river flooding. 
The Ledges has a neat back nine, but the front is flat as a pancake and nothing to write home about.
Wolf Creek - if the cost isn't too off putting, then worth a once and done.  Dream Calendar golf holes, look pretty, but don't always play great.
Coyote Springs - Nicklaus course about 1.5 hour from St. George, supposed to be okay (I have not played) and could tie into a break in the trip from or to Las Vegas.


If you trust Tom Doak, then play Sand Hollow 2+ times.  It's in his Gourmet's Choice for Volume II and I endorse this as well.
I'd second the recommendation to go to Zion National Park, less than 1 hour from St. George and spectacular.


FYI:  If this is a Boys trip and you are looking to party/booze as well as golf, then St. George may not be your location....

[Pete_Pittock]

    Was down there two weeks ago to play some of the courses that I hadn't already played. Chose Entrada-Snow Canyon and The Ledges in St. George and Falcon Ridge in Mesquite. With the large elevation discrepancy the Saint George courses were just coming out of dormancy, light brown and thin, in definite contrast with the lusher Mesquite courses.
   Both Snow Canyon and The Ledges are mostly hum-drum with a three hole sequence on each back nine the selling points. Snow Canyon goes through a lava bed, the sign for the lava trainagle quaintly says the lava is played "through the green" whatever that means in 2019. The Ledges triple play involves some reverse camber greens and a tight green fronted by water.  Johnny Miller's Snow Canyon has a lot of 'in your face' water hazards, Dye's The Ledges water fits in a lot better, although I would have put the lakes on 18 on the right side, since the lake on 9 is on the left.
Both course bunkering was similar, smallish and just a few feet depressed from the greens.
   The greens are what separate the two courses for me. Snow Canyon greens were flat, gumless with no teeth. Each green at The Ledges has character.  That and the price structure, Ledges was half the price and you weren't gouged by
staying at the pricey lodge.
   Falcon Ridge is a poor man's Wolf Creek. The Mesquite courses are a lot greener than the St George courses. Falcon Ridge has a lot of elevation change , routed through the housing development with long cart rides between holes. Plays a lot longer than the scorecard yardage with a lot of uphill approach holes. Strength is in the back 9 - the 10th is an uphill par 5 zippered  by a creek, somewhat reminiscent of the 11th at Pasatiempo. 11th is a short dogleg, driveable.
As you exit you see a green complex way below, which turns out to be the par 5 12th, with a bunch of hazards tightening your targets. The 13th?  A good reconnoiter is suggested. Uphill dogleg right  turning into a drop shot over water from 150. Our threesome never found any of our drives. A good hole for "maximum score" devotees. Course worth the price of admission.
   Most everyone putted with the flagstick in.

Sand Hollow is still the champion in the region.     My progression is Sand Hollow, Coral Canyon, Wolf Creek, Falcon Ridge, The Ledges, Entrada/Snow Canyon, Oasis, Sky Mountain.

 

[Tim Leahy]

What is the alcoholic drink availability at resorts in Utah? Friend of mine had to join a club to buy a drink there, although this was many years ago.

[Brad Tufts]

I think much (if not all) of that has gone away.


Also, the "join a club" thing was no more than "sign here and pay $2 extra" as far as I've been told, but that may not have been the rule everywhere. 


There were/are some other funky rules too, like mixed drinks had to be mixed behind a curtain (I guess some of this has gone away), you couldn't have alcohol without ordering food, no drinks with more than 1.5 oz. of booze, no happy hours, kegs for sale, etc.  I guess the beer can't be above 4% alcohol either.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Coyote Springs is worth your time. It is very good.

[Kalen Braley]

Living in Utah, I can provide some clarity.

- Yes the local club law, where you pay a few bucks to be a temporary member, is completely gone. 
- The 4% ABV rule is still in effect at bars, but only for beer available on tap.  Bottled beer is almost always full strength at bars/restaurants.
- The 4% ABV rule also applies to beer found in grocery stores.  If you want the full octane stuff you have to go to the state run liquor stores or to one of the local breweries like Epic, Squatters, etc.
- Mixed drinks remains the biggest downside as legally you can only have 1.5 shots or 2.25 ounces of liquor in a mixed drink.  I know a couple of places that seem to skirt this, but as a general rule buying any kind of "complex" mixed drink like a long island iced tea is a bad idea in Utah.  Stick to standard shots or simple mixed drinks like rum/coke, vodka/crann, etc.
- The zions curtain, aka drink mixing wall only applies to new bars, but they're already talking about relaxing this absurd rule..

The big gotcha in Utah now is the DUI rate at  .05% BAC.  If you're a small guy one stiff drink could put you over...

[Jeff Schley]

Living in Utah, I can provide some clarity.

- Yes the local club law, where you pay a few bucks to be a temporary member, is completely gone. 
- The 4% ABV rule is still in effect at bars, but only for beer available on tap.  Bottled beer is almost always full strength at bars/restaurants.
- The 4% ABV rule also applies to beer found in grocery stores.  If you want the full octane stuff you have to go to the state run liquor stores or to one of the local breweries like Epic, Squatters, etc.
- Mixed drinks remains the biggest downside as legally you can only have 1.5 shots or 2.25 ounces of liquor in a mixed drink.  I know a couple of places that seem to skirt this, but as a general rule buying any kind of "complex" mixed drink like a long island iced tea is a bad idea in Utah.  Stick to standard shots or simple mixed drinks like rum/coke, vodka/crann, etc.
- The zions curtain, aka drink mixing wall only applies to new bars, but they're already talking about relaxing this absurd rule..

The big gotcha in Utah now is the DUI rate at  .05% BAC.  If you're a small guy one stiff drink could put you over...

Kalen are the above statewide?  Are there additional restrictions in Provo and less in Salt Lake City? 

[Kalen Braley]

Jeff,

Yes, these are all statewide laws.  I'm not aware of any county only restrictions, but there may be some.  Certainly if you find yourself in Provo on a Sunday, i'm aware of only 1 that is open..lol.

P.S.  Utah is 1 of only 2 remaining states that mandates 4% ABV beer be sold in grocery stores.  Word is that big brewers are going to stop making them, at which time Utah's hand will be forced or stores will just be content with a handful of local brewers who make the 4% variety.  They actually had a bill in the latest legislative session to move the limit to 6%, but the church stepped in and put the kybosh on it...