[Dan Kelly]

Some say it is next to nowhere and you can see nowhere from here, we prefer to think we are right where we want to be, on the plains of South Dakota, where the winds blow, the sun shines, and there is virtually not a sound to be heard.  It is one of the most peaceful places I have ever experienced in my life, and we golf, hunt, fish, drink good wine, eat good food, and breathe in clean air.  I am not sure where you are Phillip but this is a good place.

Well said, Mark.

How can you not like a place where there are more pheasants than people?

It's a great place -- right on the edge of the Great American West.

On the chance that you're a driver, Philip, and not a flyer: Sutton Bay is a pleasant, six-hour (or so) drive from Minneapolis-St. Paul. But slow down and keep your eyes peeled for deer, if you're in South Dakota at dusk!

One other thing I've got to warn you about: The drive away from Sutton Bay is no fun at all.

[Carl Nichols]

So many courses, so little time . . . .

Looks spectacular.  Thanks for sharing. 

[Stephen Davis]

So many courses, so little time . . . .

Looks spectacular.  Thanks for sharing.  

This does look spectacular! I am thinking that I am going to have to come and visit. One of the perks of moving to Colorado is that there is a lot that is with driving or flying distance, if you are willing to make the effort.

PS. I may have missed it, but when are they expecting it to be open? It looks beautiful!

[Tony Weiler]

Is anyone building a course in north Dakota oil boom country?  There is money to be had up there.

John, the only ND course on the "radar" would be a new Minot Country Club, as the old was beaten up by the summer of '11 flood.  The old Minot CC course, however, is going to re-open as a semi-public.  The newly proposed course had Jim Engh as the designer, but as of late, I think it has been shelved for reasons I don't know enough about to discuss. 

Mark A. won't remember me, but when I was fortunate enough to play SB he was a wonder person to talk to.  I will make it down there this summer for sure.  For me, it's a short 2.5 hour drive.

[Rick Shefchik]

Looks to me that the new Sutton Bay will retain much of the feel and visual charm of the old course, while being even more linksy and natural. Quite a feat. Congratulations, Mark.

[Charlie Gallagher]

I am infering that the original course at Sutton Bay has been retired? I saw a post that used the words "RIP". Is that a total misread of some posts here? The new course looks alluring, are there now 36 holes to play?

[David Harshbarger]

Mark, the course looks wonderful.  Hope to see it some day.  Definitely on my radar. Dave

[Bruce Leland]

Can't wait to make the 5 hour drive to Agar this Summer....if it ever comes to MN this year!

[Tyler Kearns]

I am infering that the original course at Sutton Bay has been retired? I saw a post that used the words "RIP". Is that a total misread of some posts here? The new course looks alluring, are there now 36 holes to play?

Charlie,

The old course is no longer in existence, you can see the deterioration in the most current Google Earth imagery as it returns to nature.

TK

[Charlie Gallagher]

Tyler,
    Once again for the uneducated, can you or someone else elaborate as to why a relatively new golf course has gone to pasture and been replaced (if that is what happened)? Wasn't the original course at Sutton Bay concieved and built in the last decade? Didn't it achieve critical acclaim?
Thank's for your anticipated response.

[Adam Clayman]

Charlie, As I understand it, In that region there's a naturally occurring shift of top soil known as The Missouri Breaks. The original course was literally  sliding into the lake (part of Missouri river system), causing dangerous fissures in the ground. It likely wreaked havoc with the irrigation system, too.

[Charlie Gallagher]

Adam,
   Thanks for the illumination.
    I assume the soil profile is glacial till. Is there a particular reason it is unstable that you know of?
    Sad to hear the original course suffered such an expensive fate. What a bummer for the members.

[Adam Clayman]

Charlie, Apparently, Missouri breaks has different meanings. Regardless, the sedimentary nature of the top soil is well know for the shifting. While the river has several influences to it's origins, it's the silty sediments that are likely the biggest reason.

Hopefully our resident geologist will chime in.

[Dan Kelly]

I'm not the resident geologist; nor am I an expert on Sutton Bay. But I do know this:

After many years of light snow-pack upriver in Montana, the water level at Lake Oahe (the Missouri River reservoir on which Sutton Bay sits) was, the most recent time I was there, in 2009 or 2010, some 50 feet (?) below the level when the course was built.

When the water gets drawn out of the soil, it erodes, crumbles, subsides. Fairways collapse and disappear (left side of No. 6 was the first casualty, if I remember right, followed by long cracks on the uphill side of No. 15). Greens lose their low side (No. 7 green -- a beauty -- kept losing its left side). Irrigation lines get ripped apart. Keeping the golf course playable gets very, very expensive.

You can see the problems here: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,49202.0.html

I hope Mark Amundson will correct me, if I've made any mistakes here.

[Mark_Amundson]

Charlie et al:

The geology of the Missouri basin is one of glacial till and a great deal of shale.  The original course was built in the land between Lake Oahe and the mesa where the new course now sits.  Lake Oahe is 240 miles long, 1-2 miles wide and 125 ft deep in places.  The lake is the Missouri River dammed up and thus was created in 1960.  The level of the lake fluctuates dramatically based on the snow pack in Montana and the amount of spring rain that feeds it.  Over the 10 years Sutton Bay has been in existence the lake level has increased and decreased as much as 55 ft in a year 3 different times.  This fluctuation has a huge impact on the stability of unstable soils.  That, along with our watering of the course, caused the ancient fault lines in the land to shift and rendered the course unplayable and unfixable.  What happened to the land in the 10 years has surprised, to say the least, even the most knowledgeable geological engineers.  The land on the top of the mesa has a completely different soil profile than the original course and we have done a great deal of evaluation and soil borings to try and make sure things are different this time.  That is the short version by a non-expert!  Hope that helps and hope you can make it out to see the new course and have a look at things that happened on the original course.

[RJ_Daley]

Dan Kelly must have the largest treasure trove of photos of the original SB on the planet!    Good memories...

[Pete_Pittock]

I will have the pleasure of playing Sutton Bay next week, on the return from Duluth's Mashie. I understand Golfweek just had a raters weekend there and thought I should bring this old thread for posting.

[Jason Hines]

Hi Pete,


Played there 13 years ago on the original course..


Good people.


Please report back if you would.

[Jake Marvin]

Pete,

Enjoy the course, they have it in the best shape it's ever been in, and they've made a couple changes (grass bunkers at 1 and 6, new tees at 2 and 17, reworked bunker at 17) that are helping. I'd still advocate altering 9 green, but otherwise they've worked out the kinks.

Absolutely great people there. Mark Amundsen's spirit lives on, God bless him.

And if you get the chance, stay for a meal at the clubhouse. The chefs have been great this year and everyone ought to experience the pheasant quesadilla at least once.

[PCCraig]

Sutton Bay is awesome. Made one overnight stop there on the way out to Montana. The entire club is terrific and (while I never played the original course) really enjoyed the golf.

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