PGA and U.S. Open Rotations

[Tim Martin]

It seems that perennial U.S. Open hosts like Oak Hill East and Baltusrol Lower have gone over to the PGA with no signs of being brought back into the U.S. Open rota any time soon. Atlanta Athletic and Bellerive which were once U.S. Open courses are now used by the PGA exclusively. I’m sure there are a number of factors but the one that comes to mind for me is whether the PGA of America is that much easier to deal with for the host club than the USGA?

[Jeff Schley]

It seems that perennial U.S. Open hosts like Oak Hill East and Baltusrol Lower have gone over to the PGA with no signs of being brought back into the U.S. Open rota any time soon. Atlanta Athletic and Bellerive which were once U.S. Open courses are now used by the PGA exclusively. I’m sure there are a number of factors but the one that comes to mind for me is whether the PGA of America is that much easier to deal with for the host club than the USGA?

That is an understatement. I played at Baltursol 2 years ago and the host member said he they made a decision several years back to work with the PGA going forward as they are not nearly as demanding as the USGA.

[John Kavanaugh]

Perhaps the greatest crime ever committed against modern architecture is that Pete Dye will not see a US Open played at one of his courses.

[Steve Lapper]

$$$$$$




The PGA shares far more with a host club than the USGA and are far easier to work with. Nor do they bring the "holier than thou attitude" to the table from the get go.

[Ira Fishman]

PGA also can offer Ryder Cup.


Ira

[Jason Topp]

Hazeltine signed a deal that included two PGAs and a Ryder Cup. It would have been tough to turn that down in hopes of landing another US Open. 

[BHoover]

Hazeltine signed a deal that included two PGAs and a Ryder Cup. It would have been tough to turn that down in hopes of landing another US Open.

And now the club is getting a second Ryder Cup. So it seems like a no-brainer to go with the PGA.

[Jeff Schley]

Hazeltine signed a deal that included two PGAs and a Ryder Cup. It would have been tough to turn that down in hopes of landing another US Open.

And now the club is getting a second Ryder Cup. So it seems like a no-brainer to go with the PGA.

Great for the club and Minnesota, but I'd like to see some geographic diversity for the fans.

[Tom_Doak]

Perhaps the greatest crime ever committed against modern architecture is that Pete Dye will not see a US Open played at one of his courses.

Mr. Dye's courses have hosted plenty of golf tournaments.  And luckily he never had much of an ego about that.


Also, the only modern architects whose courses ever HAVE hosted a US Open are Robert Trent Jones, Jr., and Mike Hurdzan/Dana Fry/Ron Whitten.   So I'll argue your point on that basis.

[mike_beene]

Whose the greatest architect to never get a major.

[Ira Fishman]

George Crump.


C&C, Fazio, Doak. And interesting that I do not think there has been a Major in many, many years on a CBM or Raynor.


Ira

[Joe Leenheer]

Interesting topic on many levels.


Has the USGA worked itself into a corner that the prestige of hosting a national championship is not worth the squeeze?  I don't think that's necessarily the case, but I wouldn't say someone is wrong for thinking it. 


It's interesting to hear the comments that working with the PGA of America (important to differentiate them from the PGA Tour) is easier, but it's not surprising to hear that they offer better terms with local clubs and I'm certain the host professional.


Ultimately, the US Open carries a bit more weight in the "major championship victory" category....is that because of the antics of the USGA?  Is it because of the PGA of America's mindset to let the players play the course instead of fight the course? 


I do think Mr. Dye deserves a US Open as his design style lends to the USGA's sadistic golf course set up style.


WHICH OF HIS COURSES SHOULD BE THE ONE?

[Matthew Petersen]

Hazeltine signed a deal that included two PGAs and a Ryder Cup. It would have been tough to turn that down in hopes of landing another US Open.

And now the club is getting a second Ryder Cup. So it seems like a no-brainer to go with the PGA.

And the US Am. Very interesting that they went all in with the PGA and are still getting USGA business as well. I've never been there, but from my couch it's hard to tell what magical allure the place has on these governing bodies ...

[Mike Bodo]

I do think Mr. Dye deserves a US Open as his design style lends to the USGA's sadistic golf course set up style.


WHICH OF HIS COURSES SHOULD BE THE ONE?

I vote for French Lick. It's demanding as heck on a calm day, but if the wind is up.......watch out! And in June, anything is likely to happen from a weather standpoint. The grounds are large enough to accommodate the circus tents, grand stands, VIP suites and pavilions that come with hosting a major event. Between French Lick and Louisville (just a little over an hour away), there is enough lodging options for out of town guests, media, sponsors, staff, VIP's etc. where they can make a go of it.

[PCCraig]

Hazeltine signed a deal that included two PGAs and a Ryder Cup. It would have been tough to turn that down in hopes of landing another US Open.

And now the club is getting a second Ryder Cup. So it seems like a no-brainer to go with the PGA.

And the US Am. Very interesting that they went all in with the PGA and are still getting USGA business as well. I've never been there, but from my couch it's hard to tell what magical allure the place has on these governing bodies ...

I know it's en vogue to shit all over a RTJ golf course, but Hazeltine has plenty going for it.


The PGA awarded them another Ryder Cup because the event was a huge success. The weather is perfect here at the end of September, there are an incredible amount of fortune 1000 companies based here, and people turned out in huge numbers all week (and they generally don't act like assholes like they do out east).


The USGA likely awarded them an amateur as they have been a LONG time supporter of all USGA events, not just the US Open. Most of those events are a financial loss for the club, but the club takes them as it's in its mission statement to host major golf events. So, unlike Merion or Oakmont who are told that if they want to host another Open, they need to host an amateur, Hazeltine was likely happy to take the very prestigious event with no promise of another event.

[Ronald Montesano]

My prediction: 3 of next 5 PGA Championships will endure horrific weather: Bethpage, Voldemort National, and Oak Hill. Baltusrol and Aronimink won't fair any better, and the move to May, along with commitments so far out, will be seen as a massive fail on the part of the PGA leadership. PGA should bring in unique southern courses to achieve diversity of region from 2025 to 2035.


USGA is out front of the PGA in terms of geographic diversity (Erin Hills, Chambers Bay, Los Angeles) and needs to continue this trend. Here is a meek chart of regional diversity


PGA                                 USGA
Bellerive, Southern Hills    Erin Hills
nothing                            Chambers Bay
Quail Hollow                      Pinehurst
Baltusrol, Aronimink          Bethpage Black, The Country Club, Shinneock, Oakmont, Winged Foot
nothing                             Los Angeles, Torrey Pines
nothing                             Pebble Beach
Valhalla                             nothing


What's missing? Florida, Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Illinois, Ohio. Those are some big golfing states that deserve a sniff at a major championship in the coming years.

[Mike Bodo]

What's missing? Florida, Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Illinois, Ohio. Those are some big golfing states that deserve a sniff at a major championship in the coming years.

Florida has the TPC each year, which is essentially the fifth major, so I say no to them hosting a PGA Championship. However, the other states you reference I'm totally down with and would add Alabama, Tennessee and Nevada (Vegas) to the list.

[Tommy Williamsen]

My prediction: 3 of next 5 PGA Championships will endure horrific weather: Bethpage, Voldemort National, and Oak Hill. Baltusrol and Aronimink won't fair any better, and the move to May, along with commitments so far out, will be seen as a massive fail on the part of the PGA leadership. PGA should bring in unique southern courses to achieve diversity of region from 2025 to 2035.

I think I'd rather be at Bethpage in May than Quail Hollow in August.

[David Whitmer]

I'm kind of surprised the USGA has not given a US Open to Jack at Muirfield Village, like they gave Bobby Jones the 1976 Open at AAC.

[Greg Clark]

My prediction: 3 of next 5 PGA Championships will endure horrific weather: Bethpage, Voldemort National, and Oak Hill. Baltusrol and Aronimink won't fair any better, and the move to May, along with commitments so far out, will be seen as a massive fail on the part of the PGA leadership. PGA should bring in unique southern courses to achieve diversity of region from 2025 to 2035.


USGA is out front of the PGA in terms of geographic diversity (Erin Hills, Chambers Bay, Los Angeles) and needs to continue this trend. Here is a meek chart of regional diversity


PGA                                 USGA
Bellerive, Southern Hills    Erin Hills
nothing                            Chambers Bay
Quail Hollow                      Pinehurst
Baltusrol, Aronimink          Bethpage Black, The Country Club, Shinneock, Oakmont, Winged Foot
nothing                             Los Angeles, Torrey Pines
nothing                             Pebble Beach
Valhalla                             nothing


What's missing? Florida, Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Illinois, Ohio. Those are some big golfing states that deserve a sniff at a major championship in the coming years.

The 2027 and 2034 PGA Championships will be held in Frisco, Texas (Dallas area).