[Ian Mackenzie]

After going through the first stages of a restoration at our club, I began giving this topic much thought and am wondering what "rules" or guidelines there may be, if any.


1. When is it prudent/smart/proper to run your fairways directly into the FW bunkers with no "rough buffer" to possibly stop a misdirected shot?


I noticed that, at Rich Harvest Farms, the FW bunkers were like isolated islands in the rough. While certainly in a player's mind visually, they appeared only to catch shots that came in via the air vs. rolling on the ground.


2. Same question for fairways running into greenside bunkers?


Is this a maintenance issue or an architectural one?


3. When would a GCA choose to VERY closely integrate greens into bunkers so that there exists the possibility that one might putt off a green into a bunker? How do you explain the differences between tie-ins with bunker surrounds? Stylistically? Architecturally? Whimsically?


Or, is this a turf/agronomy/maintenance choice as well?


I am not a fan of rough in front of bunkers that can serve to prevent and poorly directed shot from entering a hazard. But, I am curious to hear from others here.


Cheers.

[John Chilver-Stainer]

I just recently checked out a green I designed at Interlaken GC in Switzerland about 13 years ago.
A par 3 where if a ball drifts into the middle right third of the green, gravity will take over and the ball will be fed into a deep bunker.

There was no original design intent, but during the radical shaping of the green I was confronted with the proposition.
I felt it was a great bit of quirk that would ambush the negligent golfer and give huge advantage to the local players.
After some beer bar discussions with my team, we decided to go with it.

Not surprisingly it divided opinion and and a lot of explaining and discussion ensued. The most bitter criticism came from a future captain who carried his complaint to the press, but others supported me and the journalist took my side and didn't publish.

The "evil" green has remained unchanged over the years, which all goes to show that occasional perfidy is not necessarily inhumane, and has it's place in golf course design .

If green and bunker have great aesthetics and ways of avoiding the evil trap - then put it to the test.

Just not at every hole!!!

[Bill_McBride]

Ian, re 1 and 2: always!

Look at the photo of the fairway bunkers at Royal Liverpool in Ran's review for perfection.  Fairway bunkers surrounded by rough have always been my personal pet peeve.

With regard to bunkers integrating with greens, photos of the bunkers eating into the greens at Metropolitan in Oz have always mesmerized me.

[Tom_Doak]

Ian:


I think this is a maintenance issue, as much or more than an architectural one.  Certainly, you want to get the fairways and greens close to the bunkers, but that last little bit is pretty expensive, is it not?


Indeed, it would greatly help this discussion if you and other superintendents would chime in on how much more it costs to do some of these little things.  Having a separate mower come out and mow little areas at the edges of bunkers cannot be a negligible cost, but I don't know how much it DOES cost, and having some numbers would help a lot when bringing up the issue with green committees.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Perhaps it's both, but we did it at our course under Jim Urbina's watchful eye as it also involved appropriate fairway expansions so the new mowing lines synched with the hole.


I did see photos on this site of a "home grown" effort to have FWs seamlessly transition to bunkers and it did just did not fit well.


When I played SFGC (with Bruce Mosbacher, Tom) back in 2013, he mentioned that SF's greens staff was having maintenance issues with such short grass juxtaposed with bunker edges but we have not found that to be the case.


Our new super (who you also know, Tom) may want to see more of this I believe. It makes a difference. On our 5th hole - a fairly standard 400 yard straightaway par 4, I used to hit driver, aim at right edge of FW bunker (270 out) on left and let my baby fade take the ball to the center. If I pulled it or hit it staight, the rough in front of the bunker would stop it.


Today, the FW rolls right into the bunker and if i dont fade the ball, my second shot is from the bunker!

[Jon Wiggett]

I just recently checked out a green I designed at Interlaken GC in Switzerland about 13 years ago.
A par 3 where if a ball drifts into the middle right third of the green, gravity will take over and the ball will be fed into a deep bunker.

There was no original design intent, but during the radical shaping of the green I was confronted with the proposition.
I felt it was a great bit of quirk that would ambush the negligent golfer and give huge advantage to the local players.
After some beer bar discussions with my team, we decided to go with it.

Not surprisingly it divided opinion and and a lot of explaining and discussion ensued. The most bitter criticism came from a future captain who carried his complaint to the press, but others supported me and the journalist took my side and didn't publish.

The "evil" green has remained unchanged over the years, which all goes to show that occasional perfidy is not necessarily inhumane, and has it's place in golf course design .

If green and bunker have great aesthetics and ways of avoiding the evil trap - then put it to the test.

Just not at every hole!!!

I am glad they kept that green and bunker as is. It was a bold choice but one that added a lot to the holes charm.


Jon

[John Chilver-Stainer]

Jon,


As the construction supervisor your input on this hole was very important.


Yes, the 14th Hole remains visually "exceptionally pleasing" thanks also to some bold decisions removing tons of old land fill in order to lower the fairway and reveal more of the drama of the green and surrounds.


The green is a "femme fatale" which appears appealing, but should be approached with care to avoid an expensive end.


John

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