[Scott McWethy]

Why do so many of the best players in the world miss 5 to 10 footers on this green.  Compared to other greens on the course, this seems to be one of the tamer ones, or am I wrong?  It doesn't seem to have much in the way of contours, but I still see so many putts missed.  For those that are familiar with the 12th green or for those who have played it, what is it about this green that give the players such fits.

[Matthew Essig]

I think Davis Love III described it well. He said the green is so deceptively flat. 1) You have been playing greens with so much slope, it is hard to believe you can have a straight putt and 2) you would think it breaks towards Rae's Creek, and it just doesn't.

[John Connolly]

There is a tremendous amount of what looks like poa throughout the green. Whereas most of the greens' putting surfaces are homogeneous, 12 is very mottled. Perhaps those variable grasses contribute to its difficulty.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

I think Davis Love III described it well. He said the green is so deceptively flat. 1) You have been playing greens with so much slope, it is hard to believe you can have a straight putt and 2) you would think it breaks towards Rae's Creek, and it just doesn't.

I believe this. Putts just don't break much there, and most players seem to miss them high.

[Ronald Montesano]

magnets

[James Bennett]

Commentators said there is a 2 degree tilt in the green - not sure on the orientation of the tilt.  Not undulating but tilted.

I suspect the difficulty in reading any break would be increased by the poorer light on that green - far less direct sun so more difficult to see the lie of the land.

James B

[Marc Haring]

Possibly it's tough for the same reason that the tee shot is so difficult i.e. swirling winds at that part of the course. On greens that fast the wind can have a huge influence on the putt especially when it is unpredictable.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Nice question, Scott.


I think a lot of it is down to the fact that, on Sunday at least, we're pretty much watching everyone try the same (really difficult) putt: a 10'-12' right-breaking putt from the left side of the green.


Can you picture that? Nobody has an uphill first putt (except by mistake and miracle), and the green is so small that it's nearly impossible to have a straight downhill or left-breaking first putt.


Also, that green might be a different speed due to its location. Because everyone has the same first putt it might be a bit bumpier as the day goes on, too.


Sunday 2004 every single golfer seemed to have that same 10'-12' first putt from the left. No one made it -- until Mickelson. Interesting that he's left-handed (and by then would've been very familiar with the putt).

[PCCraig]

Maybe it's just me, but has the 12th green shrunk?? As there always been all of that first cut between the back bunker and the putting surface?

[Carl Nichols]

Do the data support the position that fewer putts are made on 12? 

[Mark Bourgeois]

You'd probably need (unavailable) advanced statistics to answer. That green is so small, traditional putting statistics probably show it easier than the other greens, which all are larger and therefore have more 3-putts.

[Carl Nichols]

You'd probably need (unavailable) advanced statistics to answer. That green is so small, traditional putting statistics probably show it easier than the other greens, which all are larger and therefore have more 3-putts.

Right, I was thinking something like % of putts made by distance. 

[MClutterbuck]

The green is deceptive. It has multiple brakes. Much of the green brakes right to left. I would say this is the main slope and not towards the creek. On both sides of the front bunker there is some additional brake towards the creek, but not in the middle. And while the green appears to be relatively flat compared to other greens, there is still enough brake to make you miss a 5-10 footer. It is more subtle but not easier.
I have no idea about current conditions, but I very much doubt there is poa affecting putts on a regular basis. It might happen one year, but the green would be resurfaced immediately. [/size]

[Phil McDade]

Do the data support the position that fewer putts are made on 12?

The 12th has played easier than its par 3 brethren in recent years, which suggests it putts easier than other par 3s at Augusta; see this thread from not long ago:


http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,51759.msg1184753.html#msg1184753


But -- contra my thread linked above -- it's playing much more difficult this year; hardest among the course's par 3s by a fair amount, and playing as one of the toughest holes on the course: http://www.masters.com/en_US/scores/stats/cstats.html (through first 2 rounds).

[Scott McWethy]

Do the data support the position that fewer putts are made on 12?

The 12th has played easier than its par 3 brethren in recent years, which suggests it putts easier than other par 3s at Augusta; see this thread from not long ago:


http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,51759.msg1184753.html#msg1184753


But -- contra my thread linked above -- it's playing much more difficult this year; hardest among the course's par 3s by a fair amount, and playing as one of the toughest holes on the course: http://www.masters.com/en_US/scores/stats/cstats.html (through first 2 rounds).

The 12th green by far is a much flatter surface than the other par 3's greens.  What I'm trying to figure out is why are so many putts missed for a green that doesn't have a lot of movement.  Some of the responses so far give some good insight.

[V. Kmetz]

Hello,


I'll engage the anecdotal question, yet I too am not positive that any more or less putts are "made" on that green than any other.


1. I think environmentally, it is the "slowest" physical surface on the course...In addition to its relative flatness, it's position at the end of the 2/3rds mark of the round, gives it a chance to "grow" before competitors play it. Despite its position in the lowest corner of the property, it receives an abundance of 8am - 4pm sun, yet the semi-protected site traps heat and moisture moreso than any green site except perhaps #4. This relative, but-still-marginal, slowness is a perceptible, nano-difference to elite golfers, which is vexing for that which they generally face all round long.


2. I think it is the smallest green on the course and therefore--no matter where the pin is located--receives more primary and secondary foot traffic around the putting routes to hole locations than any other....another X factor for the surgical elite players.


3. Someone mentioned this in part before...there are very few uphill putts available to the hole locations and places to miss from the tee. And while the green may be the relative, "flattest" overall, any downhill putt remains "Augusta scary," and prospects for error are higher ...players thus, are more attenuated to a birdie chance or par save NOT becoming a 3-putt bogey or double... e.g. the incentive to drain it with confidence is contextually limited by the fact that so many of its putts are downhill.


4. The binding, structural factor of all of this for me is the awkward "twist" of the contours (created mostly by the "fanned" downslope of the front trap) as the figure-8 green outline narrows to 9 yards in between front bunker and back fringe...It interrupts and influences what would otherwise be a continuous banked profile from the low right fringe all the way to the low left fringe.  Also this bank (interrupted or not) causes putts to be arched sidehill, on  the Z axis, more than uphill...those kind of putts that if they are charged, they can skate past the top side of the hole, and after the miss, start to fall downhill...I do see a lot of that (misses high) on that green, especially on that Sunday right-half f the green.


Lastly, while I haven't played the course, I have walked on that green in my bare feet for over 20 minutes. A paradox arising from my furtive entry onto the ANGC grounds some years ago.


cheers
vk

[Carl Nichols]

Do the data support the position that fewer putts are made on 12?

The 12th has played easier than its par 3 brethren in recent years, which suggests it putts easier than other par 3s at Augusta; see this thread from not long ago:


http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,51759.msg1184753.html#msg1184753


But -- contra my thread linked above -- it's playing much more difficult this year; hardest among the course's par 3s by a fair amount, and playing as one of the toughest holes on the course: http://www.masters.com/en_US/scores/stats/cstats.html (through first 2 rounds).

The 12th green by far is a much flatter surface than the other par 3's greens.  What I'm trying to figure out is why are so many putts missed for a green that doesn't have a lot of movement.  Some of the responses so far give some good insight.

And I'm asking whether, in fact and based on the data, as many putts are actually missed as we think.   

[Terry Lavin]

Ask Overreaders Anonymous. It's so damned hard to hit given its angle and lack of depth and it's in between two wickedly breaking greens, that it's probably "overread".  I hope to personally test this theorem some day.

[Mike_Young]

Talk about FAKE NEWS....this is how FAKE golf history gets started....there is more BS on this thread that will go down as history than I can absorb.  If a professional golfer was to listen to this stuff he would be completely messed in the mind....
pick the right club, make a good swing, line up the putt and either make it or get it close...go to next hole...

[Jon Wiggett]

I think the twelfth is tricky rather than difficult. Two of the things to do with the design that contribute to this trickiness are firstly, from the tee the putting surface is almost at eye level so the player does not see the depth of the putting surface. The second is that the right side of the green runs away from the center of the green meaning that any putt from the safer middle area of the green risks running a few extra feet by.


Combining this with the difficulty of getting up and down if the green is missed and you have a very tricky hole.

[Matthew Essig]

Talk about FAKE NEWS....this is how FAKE golf history gets started....there is more BS on this thread that will go down as history than I can absorb.  If a professional golfer was to listen to this stuff he would be completely messed in the mind....
pick the right club, make a good swing, line up the putt and either make it or get it close...go to next hole...

If you call what Davis Love III said BS, I don't know what to believe....... 

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