News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Andy Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Stonewall's Par 3's
« on: December 28, 2016, 05:21:49 PM »

I was just thinking back to the par 3s and I was curious which of the holes everyone would consider as redan holes. I felt like a lot of them had the tendencies and a couple were full on redans such as the 17th at the North Course.





I would you consider the 9th on the Old Course a redan? I thought it played like one with just the water serving as the bunker ala Cavalier GC.










The 17th on the Old Course played like a reverse. I loved how that hole at 230 played like it would have in the old days having to bounce it up onto that green.





Also the 15th had a few tendencies, although the left side didn't kick it as much as you would have guessed from the tee. That is such a great little hole, such a shot, seemingly between clubs for everyone, tough to gauge the wind in the corner, then the green... 





Curious as to everyone else thoughts
« Last Edit: December 28, 2016, 10:15:31 PM by Andy Johnson »

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Stonewall's Par 3's
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2016, 09:59:44 AM »
Angled approaches create some strategy on a par three. If a three is straight and wide open green contours create the only interest. If front or back bunkers are built then it is penal-- avoid the bunkers.


Angled approaches allow many pin locations which increases the strategy.  Flynn was a master of this .


Some angled threes are redans but most aren't.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2016, 02:01:53 PM by mike_malone »
AKA Mayday

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Stonewall's Par 3's
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2016, 10:14:02 AM »
Andy:


I had forgotten that the 17th on the Old course at Stonewall was intended as a reverse Redan, because we had to abandon our idea for the back tee when it was being built and only put it back into play a couple of years ago.  Changing the angle to the right and shortening the hole considerably had turned a Redan into not-a-Redan, but now it is back to being one.


I'd never thought of the 15th Old in that context.  The ridge in front of the green is a natural rock ledge so it had to stay; the green itself sits well away from it and is really tiny.  The safe play is to bail left and a bit short, and hope for the possibility of a good bounce, but to me that isn't enough to call it a Redan.


I would never call a hole with water a Redan.  The 9th Old was based more on the 16th at Augusta, and the 16th green at Pine Valley, which starts low by the water and rises up abruptly to a back tier.  You can try to use the big slope in the green to swing a ball around to the left side, but there are lots of greens like that, and they aren't all Redans.


The 17th on the North course, I guess I would call a Redan.  I actually told my crew NOT to build a Redan there, but when I got back they had built one anyway.  That's what I like least about the Redan ... that so many people who are interested in architecture tend to want to pound that same peg into every hole where it might fit, and even if we do something completely different with the green contours, they are still going to see what they want to see.

Ian Mackenzie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Stonewall's Par 3's
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2016, 10:47:30 AM »
Andy-


Congrats on making it to the Mid-Am.
Great shots!!


Should have listened to you more when you were looping for me....;-)


Cheers,
Ian

Eric LeFante

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Stonewall's Par 3's
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2016, 01:57:48 PM »
Good post Andy.


17 Old is the only one that I think is a redan.


I'm so happy the USGA decided to build the back tee and make the hole play as Tom intended it to. We saw two awesome 5 irons in the final match on that hole: Hagestad hitting a high fade that landed on the front edge and trickled just past the cup; Harvey hitting a low draw 5 iron that landed short of the green and rolled to the back. The USGA asked Hagestad for his 5 iron for the USGA museum since he was 2 down with 2 to play and ended up winning the championship.


The other holes are fantastic par 3s but don't seem like redans to me. None of those greens run towards the back, which is a key attribute to a redan in my opinion.

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Stonewall's Par 3's
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2016, 02:14:38 PM »
I really enjoy both courses at Stonewall. 

And bringing the 17th on the Old course back to the original design is a nice improvement.

Pics of both courses from the Bausch Collection at MyPhillyGolf:

http://www.myphillygolf.com/uploads/bausch/StonewallOld/index.html

http://www.myphillygolf.com/uploads/bausch/StonewallNorth/index.html
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Andy Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Stonewall's Par 3's
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2016, 10:31:06 PM »
Andy-


Congrats on making it to the Mid-Am.
Great shots!!


Should have listened to you more when you were looping for me....;-)


Cheers,
Ian


Thank you,
Ha maybe but I don't read greens well  ???

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back