[Patrick_Mucci]

I was looking at some old aerial photos, taken in the 1940's of some golf courses that I'm familiar with.

It was apparent that only a few specimen trees existed on the entire golf course.  Today, every hole on the golf course is lined with trees, and almost every green on the golf course has trees behind it, acting as backround.

Some of the holes are doglegs, and have been planted with trees dictating the lines of play.

In looking at these photos I couldn't help but think that many of these trees were planted as a cheap method to create strategy on the golf course, to prevent the cutting of the dogleg, to prevent obtaining a shortened or prefered angle of attack into the green.

And then I thought about the process a club goes through to build a bunker versus planting a tree.

Many clubs planted trees in the off season, when many if not all of the members were absent and little in the way of pre-planting planning was necessary by a committee or board.

However, introducing a bunker is far more invasive to the play of the golf course, requiring planning, construction and significant funds.

In addition, adding bunkers places more pressure on a golfers game, many are inept at bunker play, others are mediocre and most fear them.

Trees seem to be a far more attractive feature/hazard then bunkers due to the remote chance that the golfer will encounter them.  And secondly, because once encountered, they are easier to recover from.

It also seems easier to plant a tree then design, locate and build a bunker.

So, for the period 1940 to current date, do trees represent a less complicated, cheaper feature to introduce to a golf course, then a bunker ?

[Mike_Young]

Yes.
After and during the depression many bunkers were filled due to budgets.  And trees took the place.
I think we are seeing it again in the last few years as some of these courses are bought out of foreclosure etc.  Except they are just grassing the bunkers and pacing plantings etc in their place.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Patrick,
Newly planted trees don't become a "feature" for at least 20 years.

Could it be possible that more trees were planted in the name of beautification, isolation and protection than strategery?    

[john_stiles]

I agree and have read newspaper accounts where 'greens committee chairman' said trees were planted because a course was thought too open or too easy.

Trees could cheaply (some trees were almost free) replace a bunker.  You could quicky plant pines that would narrow any fairway in a few years based on my experience at another local course.  

A long line (or group) of trees would quickly define an effective hazard much easier than a bunker or group of bunkers.

Jim ......in the southern US,  pines can be become a part of the sta-tree-regy in only 5 years or less depending on size planted.  After 20 years, pines can become very large indeed.

As at my local course,  I would think that many bunkers also became grassed during WWII when gas and men and machine parts were scarce.  In general,  maintenance was minimal or non-existent and there was little play.

[john_stiles]

Forgot to add.....

If you do next-to-zero maintenance on pines (ie minimal limbing) those pines (white pines)  become pretty penal with low limbs and still seem to quickly shoot up....

So trees are cheap to maintain, as opposed to raking bunkers,  replacing sand,  fixing drainage, etc.

[BCrosby]

I agree with the above.

As noted, safety is a frequently used justification for trees. In my recent discusions with people about tree removal, they are convinced that you can't have parallel fairways without a tree barrier. Can't imagine it otherwise.

Even if those same parallel fairways didn't have a tree barrier for the first 50 years of the course.

Pat -

I'm not sure trees are an easier hazard to recover from. Mature pines certainly aren't. And hitting off pine straw is no treat.  

Bob

[Patrick_Mucci]

BCrosby,

The key to recovery from pine straw is to make sure you strike the ball with a descending blow.

The placement of trees seems to meet little resistance, the insertion of a bunker seems to create a firestorm.

[PGertner]

Most definately, trees are hazards in the average golfer's mind.    

Until just this week, I was the Super at a 1923 Ross...with the ever present over abundance of trees.  At almost every Green and Tree Committee meeting I attended, at least once I would tell these guys that their architect NEVER intended a tree to be a hazard.  Even the most progressive members of these committees never grasped the concept.    

[TEPaul]

I've never actually heard of an architect recommending that trees replace bunkering although I'm aware of a few early architects that recommended using existing trees for both beauty AND strategy--ie Tillinghast and Flynn.

I've never really heard of a preWW2 architect who recommended a tree planting program to create golf strategy either--that sort of thing seems to have generally come from the clubs and committees of the clubs--with very little thought to how it may ultimately affect the golf course's architecture I might add. However, it's undeniable that particularly Tillinghast and Flynn did design golf holes that included using existing trees for golf strategy.

Most everyone seemed to have thought trees were beautiful and the whole idea of separating each hole into its own separate entity became fashionable as well as the concept of "framing" for shot direction and definition.

It seems William Flynn was scratching the surface of the idea of "framing" early on in architectural ways--not so much with trees though unless they existed on site pre-construction.. Flynn loved all things grasses and trees apparently. Flynn apparently was not averse to using trees occasionally to create sometimes one dimensional and extremely high demand shot requirements (maybe he would have approved of the new back tee on Philly C.C.’s #17!). He did this a few time at Huntingdon Valley apparently. The options of not trying the high demand shot dealing with a tree, for instance (HVCC’s #2!!), was apparently almost to get the ball on the green in 3!

Shinnecock as planned with the Flynn designed course actually included a considerable amount of tree planting that was best described in an apparently independent analysis by Hugh Alison! The site was obviously devoid of trees to a very large extent and Lucien Ting and obviously Flynn came up with a tree planting plan that included planting LOW trees in the LOW areas and HIGH trees in the HIGH areas to give the golf course (from the clubhouse) the illusion of being more undulating than it really is!

Obviously when it came to determining exactly where to plant these trees in this planned tree design scheme Alison’s report stated a few interesting things;

‘It is very desirable that your landscape man should understand how important it is that he should work with Mr. Flynn, and not independently.’

‘It is also the intention to have clumps rather than lanes. Both these things will give good results not only as seen from the holes themselves but from the Club House.”

Obviously this recommendation was intended to avoid placing trees in the way of the golf design and strategy and is a good example of the proper symbiosis of golf architecture and landscape architecture!

[MargaretC]

Patrick,
Newly planted trees don't become a "feature" for at least 20 years.

White Pines seem to grow overnite which is why they are often used as part of landscaping new housing communities developed from farm land.  Depending upon the size when planted, a White Pine easily reach 30' within 5-10 years.

In terms of trees, they are also cheap.

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul,

I wasn't referencing architects in this thread, but clubs and their committees.

Margarety C,

White pines usually grow about a foot a year, at least in Florida.

[MargaretC]

White Pines seem to grow overnite which is why they are often used as part of landscaping new housing communities developed from farm land.  Depending upon the size when planted, a White Pine easily reach 30' within 5-10 years.

In terms of trees, they are also cheap.

Patrick:

Oops!  Thank you for pointing out my need to clarify the above comment.    

My use of 5-10 year period was post planting as part of a landscape (my observation of new communities I have lived near) and not 5-10 years from a seedling.  In northern climates, the growth of a white pine (aka Pinus Strobus) averages 16" per year, so the trees to which I referred were probably 5-10 years old at the time they were planted.  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Margaret C,

I have limited experience with white pines having been involved in planting and/or replanting only about 1,000 or more of them in Florida, and a very limited number of them in northern climates

Transplanting older trees diminishes their chances of survival.

Interestingly enough, white pines don't seem to fair well under man's hand, especially under the throw radius of irrigation systems in Florida.  Many clubs apply liquid fertilizer and other agents through their irrigation systems. These additives seem to adversely affect white pines.  They seem to do better when planted away from maintained areas of a golf course.  Some nurseries will only provide limited guarantees with respect to replacements.

But, in the Northeast, White Pines usually have no place on the golf course, and in most situations, they were forced onto the golf course by a committee, not Mother Nature.

[MargaretC]

 
Margaret C,

I have limited experience with white pines having been involved in planting and/or replanting only about 1,000 or more of them in Florida, and a very limited number of them in northern climates

Transplanting older trees diminishes their chances of survival.

Interestingly enough, white pines don't seem to fair well under man's hand, especially under the throw radius of irrigation systems in Florida.  Many clubs apply liquid fertilizer and other agents through their irrigation systems. These additives seem to adversely affect white pines.  They seem to do better when planted away from maintained areas of a golf course.  Some nurseries will only provide limited guarantees with respect to replacements.

But, in the Northeast, White Pines usually have no place on the golf course, and in most situations, they were forced onto the golf course by a committee, not Mother Nature.

Patrick:

Just call me crazy, but, after our "exchange" yesterday, I had a silly thought that "white pines" had the potential to evolve into another bizarre exchange "ala a previous Oakmont thread."    On a limited basis (with accent on "limited"), that can be fun, but, on the topic of white pines,  I'll pass.

Probably not the best selection for planting in Florida.  For your info:

http://www.rook.org/earl/bwca/nature/trees/pinusstrob.html

[Patrick_Mucci]

Margaret C,

You're correct, and I'm wrong, I was referencing slash pines.

[TEPaul]

"Margaret C,
You're correct, and I'm wrong, I was referencing slash pines."

Margaret C:

A response like that from Patrick Mucci to you should enter you into the GOLFCLUBATLAS.com HALL of FAME!!!

It's my belief that's the first time Pat Mucci has ever used the word "wrong" in connection with himself and his own name!!!  

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul,

It's easy to explain because you've never been right.  
So, I've never been wrong.  But, in this case, Margaret C was right, and I was wrong and admited it.

Perhaps, like a clock that's stopped, you'll be right on a rare occassion or two at some point in the future, and then I'll have to admit to you, as  painful as it may be, that I was wrong.  

But, that may not happen for another decade or two.

[TEPaul]

I didn't want to get into this again, Patrick, but I should, in fairness, give you your due. You used to be wrong just about 98% of the time but in the last year or so with my endless and selfless help your "right" percentage is getting nearer 7% now. That's still a despicable percentage but you've actually improved much faster in the last year than previous years. Keep up the improvement at that rate or better and in a few years I might let you out of your architectural crib and onto a real golf course so you can waddle around and discuss some adult architecture with me in a semi-intelligent manner!

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