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Ran Morrissett

  • Karma: +0/-0
As predicted, the women ...
« on: June 21, 2014, 01:37:56 PM »
... are providing a more diverse and entertaining viewing experience than the men.

Play has gone as most of us thought:

• The rough is more penal. On Thursday, I saw only two players hit a green from it and one of those stuffed it tight for birdie at the short 3rd. Stronger men with steeper descent angles and long irons are more effective out of it than a woman’s sweeping motion with a hybrid. To me, the rough is extracting the perfect toll, better so than last week.

• Low flight hitters of irons were out of luck here.

• Scores are as expected. Other than the 455 yard 10th on Thursday and the 229 yard 3rd on Friday, there are no obvious birdie holes for the women. It’s the prototypical beautiful US Open grind.

•  The nightly rain’s impact this week is interesting (and it rained hard last night again). Take a look at Michele Wie’s stats: she averaged 263 yards off the tee on Thursday but that dropped to 237 yards on Friday, a 10 % decrease and a typical result for the six other players I checked. No wonder bombers like Wie and Thompson are at the top.

•  Lots of different style shots around the greens, most unsuccessful. The women are slower to automatically reach for their 60 degree wedges than the men. More 7 and 8 iron shots have been witnessed this week. I suspected that more would putt after Kaymer’s exhibition but that was a wrong assumption so far.

•  Have seen many more missed greens from ten yards out than the men. Gulbis hit a decent looking (but low) bunker shot from the right greenside bunker at the 6th and it rolled… and rolled … almost went in the hole … and rolled … and dropped into the left hand bunker. An easy, quick, yet painfully slow double.

•  The 11 year old had one of the greatest up and downs of the event, from behind the 8th green. She’s a true talent. She was +3 for the 4 par 5s that she played. In fact, she didn't par a single one of them (she birdied the 5th one day and doubled the 10th as her first hole on Thursday).

•  I had customers come in for Thursday and they both thought the course was a lot ‘prettier’ in person than it appeared during the men’s telecast. The rain brought back a range of colors.

•  A walking rules official told me on Thursday that he thought the greens were firmer/faster for the women on Thursday than they were for the men on Sunday. Don’t know why or if that is true but it was an interesting observation from a man who had been studying the play.
 
The only disappointment is the 8th hole. As a par 4, it is awkward as the girls’ driving zone is to a sideslope. They aren’t laying lack because of the severity of the green. It would play better as a 480 yard par 5 for them rather than a 426 yard par 4 to a tight/tilted fairway. I would also have set up Ross’s superb 16th as a three shotter.
 
Otherwise, the course is doing what No. 2 does: produce a great leaderboard of form players! Can’t wait for the action over the next two afternoons when the mental aspect of dealing with this course starts to wear down the players.

Given that Castle Stuart won't  :'( be on television this year, this event might join Hoylake as the best viewing experience left of the season.

Best,

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: As predicted, the women ...
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2014, 02:02:33 PM »
Judging from your thread title, have you contracted muccinitis?
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: As predicted, the women ...
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2014, 05:43:32 PM »
You mean the divot argument, made pre tournament by those that wanted to see this experiment fail, is moot?
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Carl Rogers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: As predicted, the women ...
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2014, 05:53:57 PM »
Just got through watching the 3rd round .... a lot of mis-read & mis-hit putts, maybe they should not be playing the same course??
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

David Lott

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: As predicted, the women ...
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2014, 07:35:05 PM »
Just got through watching the 3rd round .... a lot of mis-read & mis-hit putts, maybe they should not be playing the same course??

No, it's exactly why they should. The best of them will learn how to deal with these conditions. They don't get much practice at it.
David Lott

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: As predicted, the women ...
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2014, 07:43:50 PM »
Just got through watching the 3rd round .... a lot of mis-read & mis-hit putts, maybe they should not be playing the same course??

I think the one area that women should be able to play the game at the same level as the men is on the putting surface. I am glad they held the Women's Open on the same course.

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: As predicted, the women ...
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2014, 02:29:25 PM »
From Geoff Shackelford:

"It's hard to fathom how the back-to-back U.S. Open(s) could have gone much better.

Two champions who have been either the best or almost the best player in the world this year.

A golf course that held up beautifully for two weeks and made for fascinating viewing.

And the USGA staff's outstanding effort to create a qualify fan experience at Pinehurst."

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: As predicted, the women ...
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2014, 03:14:52 PM »
Amen!
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: As predicted, the women ...
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2014, 03:50:28 PM »
I loved it
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: As predicted, the women ...
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2014, 04:10:07 PM »
I will never understand how manipulating the architecture of a classic course just so the men and women can shoot the same scores is a good thing.

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: As predicted, the women ...
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2014, 04:12:44 PM »
John K. -

I suspect there are a lot of things you will never understand. ;)

DT

Brent Hutto

Re: As predicted, the women ...
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2014, 04:13:41 PM »
John,

They didn't "manipulate" anything except where they placed the tee markers. Did you really want to see 100+ women golfers playing a bunch of Par 4's as three-shot holes and hitting fairway wood third shots into Par 5 greens designed to be approached with a wedge?

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: As predicted, the women ...
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2014, 04:23:53 PM »
John,

They didn't "manipulate" anything except where they placed the tee markers. Did you really want to see 100+ women golfers playing a bunch of Par 4's as three-shot holes and hitting fairway wood third shots into Par 5 greens designed to be approached with a wedge?

Playing par 4's under 240 yds is a manipulation of the design intent.  What telecast did you watch where you saw 100+ women.  I only saw the leaders and various newsworthy players.


Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: As predicted, the women ...
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2014, 06:57:17 PM »
They manipulated plenty, but that's the modus operandi of the organization and the events. The Women's Open was less grinding and grating and therefore mildly better television. They got lucky with Wie and the weather, that's for sure. Here's hoping the lasting memories of the moisture starved course will be positive. One can hope.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Patrick_Mucci

Re: As predicted, the women ...
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2014, 07:19:55 PM »
From Geoff Shackelford:

"It's hard to fathom how the back-to-back U.S. Open(s) could have gone much better.

Two champions who have been either the best or almost the best player in the world this year.

A golf course that held up beautifully for two weeks and made for fascinating viewing.

And the USGA staff's outstanding effort to create a qualify fan experience at Pinehurst."


I'd agree with that, especially given the weather.


Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: As predicted, the women ...
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2014, 07:44:36 PM »
John,

They didn't "manipulate" anything except where they placed the tee markers. Did you really want to see 100+ women golfers playing a bunch of Par 4's as three-shot holes and hitting fairway wood third shots into Par 5 greens designed to be approached with a wedge?

Playing par 4's under 240 yds is a manipulation of the design intent.  What telecast did you watch where you saw 100+ women.  I only saw the leaders and various newsworthy players.



Do you think a par 4 at 240 is bad for women while 300 is okay for men?  That's about maximum carry for each I would think.   As long as there is a stiff penalty for failure, I think those holes are exciting if not overdone.   

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: As predicted, the women ...
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2014, 10:30:23 PM »
The women were hitting fairway woods and hybrids as the men were hitting drivers. I saw very little in comparison nor see much value in the attempt to equalize score. It would be like asking the great female sprinters of our day to compete at 100 yards so we could compare their times to the men at 100 meters.

I'm just a little sad that I can't go to Pinehurst and play the Sunday tees from either tournament.


hhuffines

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: As predicted, the women ...
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2014, 10:40:36 PM »
Whose going to stop you?

hhuffines

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: As predicted, the women ...
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2014, 10:41:48 PM »
Who is? Sorry. 

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: As predicted, the women ...
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2014, 10:47:06 PM »
Whose going to stop you?

With full tee sheets the resort will not allow me to play tees where I have to wait for greens to clear on par fours. I also doubt they would show much interest in me playing the tips. 

Nigel Islam

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: As predicted, the women ...
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2014, 10:56:51 PM »
Whose going to stop you?

With full tee sheets the resort will not allow me to play tees where I have to wait for greens to clear on par fours. I also doubt they would show much interest in me playing the tips. 

Which par four would you choose to play from the driveable ladies tees? I think that the 13th would be the most interesting just because of that green.

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: As predicted, the women ...
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2014, 05:52:29 AM »

I'm just a little sad that I can't go to Pinehurst and play the Sunday tees from either tournament.



Then I guess you'd have the same beef with the Old Course and any number of tournament venues, it just somehow pisses you off more at Pinehurst.
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Mike Sweeney

Re: As predicted, the women ...
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2014, 06:03:00 AM »

I'm just a little sad that I can't go to Pinehurst and play the Sunday tees from either tournament.



Congratulations, you have having a great life full of "First World Top 100" problems. When are you going to buy Golfweek so that you can make Brad Klein finally designate you as a rater?  :D

Serious question, when was the last time you played 18 holes with a woman?

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: As predicted, the women ...
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2014, 08:16:54 AM »
Nigel,

I would most want to play 7 from the up tee the men played. I love cutting doglegs by hitting high bombs over trees. Classic Ross template.

Jud,

Difference between sad and pissed.  I think you miss the point that.the public is typically allowed to play from the championship tees played by women competitors. I'm sure I can and will play the tees indicated on the US Open card that Mike Davis had said he would use at least one day at 6500 yds. Perhaps they will even put out brass plaques indicating their location. Last time I played Bellerive they had tee markers showing where Gary Player won the 65 Open. It just ads a dimension of enjoyment.

Mike,

I was blind paired with an Asian woman and her son at Torrey Pines.  That is the only round that I recall ever playing with a woman who was not a direct relative. Just so happens that was a US Open course and she handled it with the grace and humility any fine golfer would.

Nigel Islam

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: As predicted, the women ...
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2014, 11:06:57 AM »
The last few years I have noticed that as courses get longer on the card, there is a lot of smoke and mirrors involved in how long they actually are set up. I first noticed this at Victoria National during the web.com event two years ago. That first two rounds of the tournament was played at somewhat less of the tip value (which is certainly not overly long by Tour Standards). Certainly the US Open has been more overt about moving things around. I am very interested to see where the tees actually are when the boys play in Louisville in a few weeks. I can never actually tell for sure where John is coming from, but I think I understand what he is saying.

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