Will bold green contours be viewed unfair by the average golfer after #2

[BCowan]

Will more average golfers view #2 Greens unfair and or be in favor of flattening greens at their own clubs after watching the US Open at Pinehurst?  Being that DR prob didn't imagine #2's greens running at 12, people love to talk about how fast ''their'' greens are.   

[Nigel Islam]

The real question is did any average golf fans watch? Blowout without Sir Eldrick. I'd be interested to see the ratings.

[Tom Bacsanyi]

I'm not trying to be a brat, but for regular guest play No. 2's greens really aren't that difficult.  They were rolling about 9 when I played there several years ago in August.  Now you lean them out to 12, and you shrink their effective landing and holding area by a huge percentage.  I think it is a very peculiar case, and shouldn't influence other clubs.  But we know how well holds true...

[Jeff_Brauer]

My take is the average player doesn't really equate chipping over the green repeatedly with unfair greens, but would like to see a reasonable approach shot hold, which in my opinion and experience, requires a green with a back to front slope of at least 1.33% (yes, I have gone out and measured such stuff, but not for a while.  With faster greens, that slope is probably over 1.5%)  And, when the pin is back, the back of the green needs at least that upslope, too, or balls will run through.

When I got in the biz, domed greens were thought to be the absolute no-no.  Obviously, at a famous tournament course like P2, they were accepted as a great and unique feature, but you would never consider putting them on the local club or muni.  Sometimes, exposure to famous courses gets some folks thinking about returning to the old days.

Either way, the basics still hold.  If you want most of your golfers to hold greens (and most of them have such a hard time hitting them any way, when they do light on the green, they like to stay there).  Ditto, once they start putting, they hate to "de-green" a putt.  So, if catering to average golfers, you flatten enough to stop that from happening to all but the worst putts.

[Tom_Doak]

Bold green contours are already viewed as unfair by lots of golfers.

So are lots of the best golf holes in the world.

[Jim Sherma]

While my memory may be fading with age I did not get the sense that the rgeens last week played as severely as they did in the past. I especially remember the Michael Campbell open being more severe with the graphics where they would show the areas on the greens where balls just had no chance of staying still given the slopes and the speed. While there were all of the false fronts and sides the set up certainly did not appear over the top interms of downhill putts not being able to stop reasonable by the cups or uphill putts/chips rolling back from near the cups.

Greens that repel and shrug off decent but not great shots are just not liked by most golfers even if they are a true challenge. These types of greens also pretty much guarantee some repetition in terms of the recovery shots required throughout a round.

[Matthew Petersen]

I also didn't feel like I saw anything that a reasonable person would call goofy this week. Kaymer, and others of course, putted off of greens but they were putts that from the moment they were struck looked to be foolhardy. I don't recall instances of a ball that seemed to have all but stopped suddenly picking up momentum and ending up 30 feet down the hill or anything, which is when most people seem to start complaining.

[Mike Bowen]

I think Tom Nailed it.  Interesting and Unfair have become synonyms for many.

[Matthew Petersen]

I think Tom Nailed it.  Interesting and Unfair have become synonyms for many.

That's certainly true, but I don't know if the US Open has much effect on that thinking. Joe Public sees a guy degreen a putt at the Open and delights in the cruelties of that event. If he does it himself the next weekend, it's unfair. I doubt any relation between the two events exists in his mind.

[Ian Andrew]

I'm not trying to be a brat, but for regular guest play No. 2's greens really aren't that difficult.  They were rolling about 9 when I played there several years ago in August.  Now you lean them out to 12, and you shrink their effective landing and holding area by a huge percentage.  I think it is a very peculiar case, and shouldn't influence other clubs.  But we know how well holds true...

I agree with you Tom...
I've had three playings there and one was at a comfortable speed.
The greens and course were fun to play.

I also played one round when it was really dry and really fast and it was too much for me to handle.


And as my father taught me back in 1984, sometimes your better off not trying for a green in order to score better.
He played to spots off the green intentionally on four holes and parred all but one.
It was the difference in the match...

That entire experience taught me a lot about architecture and play.

[Carl Rogers]

Bold green contours are already viewed as unfair by lots of golfers.
So are lots of the best golf holes in the world.

Yes, Tom.  But average golfers (myself included), with practice, effort & achieving a comfort level can get reasonably proficient at green reading, approach putting and chipping.
With 99% of all golfers, no amount of practice can yield 290 yard carries off the tee, 225 yard fairway bunker shots, etc.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

The most important X factor is not being considered.  The devotion to great architecture tends to cloud perspective.   For the average player, if a course hosts a PGA event then it is great.  If a course hosts a major it is elite great.  And those are the courses they want to play no matter the scoring challenges.  Over 25 years in the golf business, I have seen most golf trips focused upon playing these courses and  I don't know how many times I had difficulty convincing these players to include Prestwick when playing Troon and North Berwick when playing Muirfield. One year a group came back after 2 of the 5 days at CPC, and we're upset they didn't play Spyglass twice instead!