[Nigel Islam]

Anybody else played this course? It was just ranked as the third best public in Indiana by Golf Week. Indiana is not exactly a hotbed for great golf courses, but their public offerings are actually very good. I can think of a few courses in Southern Indiana that I view much higher than Chariot Run, and that is not even including the Indianapolis offerings. Please somebody tell me what I am missing at CR? For the record this is the county I grew up in.

[Josh Tarble]

Nigel,
I saw that too.  I haven't played it either, but would have a hard time even including it on the list judging by what I've played. 

If I had to guess I'd say some part of it had to do with it being attached to one of the casinos. 

[Adam Warren]

I actually find this course to be probably my favorite public in the Kentuckiana region.  That isn't saying a ton, but I have enjoyed it at each trip.  The greens are fantastic out there. 

For those that have played it, name a few that you would list ahead of it.  Particularly Josh, name the ones that would keep it from making the list.  I will say, it's difficult to knock until you try it.  I do imagine number 3 on the list might be a bit high regard, but it certainly deserves some praise.  The casino may very well have something to do with that.

[Josh Tarble]

Adam, my opinion is the danger of commenting having not having played it.  I will rely on your opinion that it is worthy of the top ten.   I have a wedding in Louisville this summer, seems like it may be worth bringing the sticks and giving Chariots Run a go.

But in my opinion, Rock Hollow, Purgatory and Coyote Crossing are all worthy of inclusion.

[Nigel Islam]

Harrison Hills, Sultan's Run, Trophee Club, The Fort, Eagle Creek (old version), Otter Creek, Brickyard, Covered Bridge, Cambridge, Christmas Lake, and of course the French Lick Courses. I have not played Purgatory or Rock Hollow, but I am skeptical that Chariot Run is better. Honestly even though I am quite biased I would not rank CR ahead of Old Capitol. It just is quite surprising to me that it would be ranked that high. Its not a bad course, but I don't think it has an identity at all.

[John Mayhugh]

I haven't played it either, but would have a hard time even including it on the list judging by what I've played. 

As a general rule, you should have a hard time ranking any course that you haven't seen. 

I've played Chariot Run several times.  It's not really any better architecturally than Sultan's Run or Hickory Stick, though conditioning was a step above. Routing is pretty good, but not enough interest in the greens and a bit too much tall grass. It's actually a course that makes a pretty good first impression, but doesn't get more interesting with repeated play.  I

[Josh Tarble]

Haha, yes John, that's correct.  I was just saying I was surprised if it would be better than the courses left off the list more, let alone the ones below it.

I'm just glad that French Lick Ross is in the #2 spot.  Since the renovation I've thought that had been rated too low.

[Nigel Islam]

Haha, yes John, that's correct.  I was just saying I was surprised if it would be better than the courses left off the list more, let alone the ones below it.

I'm just glad that French Lick Ross is in the #2 spot.  Since the renovation I've thought that had been rated too low.

+1 to that.

[Chris DeToro]

I guess more surprising to me is how Otter Creek and Rock Hollow aren't on the list this year...

[Nigel Islam]

You could probably go to 25 public courses in Indiana and the drop off from 1 to 25 would be less than a Doak point.

[Brad Tufts]

Hey Nigel,

What are your top 20 or 25 Indiana publics?

I do business in Indiana every now and then, and I've played most of the top ones...now moving to the second tier.  Still haven't played The Fort, Otter Creek, Rock Hollow, or Kampen.

Aside from French Lick, Sultan's Run, Cambridge, Belterra, Quail Crossing, and Chariot Run, what's the next best in Southern Indiana?

[Nigel Islam]

Well that's 7 in Southern, Indiana. I think you hit about everything in the South. Otter Creek, Hulman Links, and Ledgends if you go a little farther North. I'll throw Covered Bridge and Christmas Lake in there as the last of the bunch.  Indy area would have Trophee Club, Purgatory, Brickyard, Rock Hollow, The Fort, Eagle Creek, Prairie View, and Bear Slide. Harrison Hills, The Purdue course, and Warren up North.  I mean we are talking a bunch of Doak 5s other than the FL courses, but I think you could put any of those courses on a "best public in state" list and not look too ridiculous. I don't know Northern Indiana at all either so I am sure I missed some.

[Adam Warren]

Don't forget Champions Pointe on the southern list there with Covered Bridge.  CP is Fuzzy's other course down there, and I find I like it better than Covered Bridge.  18th hole is odd, but outside of that very good.

[Brad Tufts]

Cool, thanks...will have to look them up.

How is Heartland Crossing?  Wolf Run-lite?

Also was intrigued by the Donald Ross course up in Fort Wayne....worthwhile at all?  I think DJR did one of the nines.

I heard Mystic Hills was ehh.

[Nigel Islam]

I've heard the FW Ross course is nothing too impressive. I totally forgot about Heartland Crossing. It's probably in the top middle of the pack of the courses We listed.

[Chris Clouser]

Chariot Run is maybe a top 20 public in the state.  It is probably the best in that area north of Lousville with Champions Pointe the only real competition.  Belterra is just east of there and I think it is better than both, even though the immediate thought on here is to bash it because it is a Fazio.  Covered Bridge is a more than a step below all of them.

As for the Ross course in Fort Wayne, it is not worth the trip.  If you are in that area of town, Brookwood is a much better option if you can only get on a public course.  Fort Wayne has much better private options.  North of Fort Wayne also has some better courses like Cobblestone or even a few up by Angola (Glendarin Hills was interesting in my one visit).

Brad,

Heartland Crossing is often overlooked because it is on the south side of Indy.  But it is a pretty good effort, the only real knock I had against it was the routing is lined with houses in the middle of the front nine.  Other than that it is a nice course.
As for Mystic Hills, I thought the front nine was really pretty neat.  Kind of like a lite version of Prairie Dunes with the fairway and green contouring.  The back nine was much more typical parkland in nature.
But very distinct feelings between the two halves.

[Josh Tarble]

Brad,
I really like Heartland Crossing...I always overlook it for some reason, and not sure why.  It has some fantastic holes.  A few bland ones but for the most part it's really interesting all the way around.  Definitely not Wolf-Run lite in any sense though.  Completely different courses and style. 

As for the courses you mentioned, you definitely need to play The Fort for sure.  I would say its a notch above everything else besides Trophy Club in the Indy area.  Kampen is really good as well (don't feel the need to tip it out though).  It's a weird mix of being prototypical Pete Dye, while also throwing in some very unique and good holes that I've never seen from Dye.

[Brad Tufts]

Will have to put Heartland on the list to check out.  Definitely will have to do The Fort and Kampen as well.

I really liked Brickyard and the Trophy Club, both were very cool, and I loved Harrison Hills.

I have played all the big privates, and to be honest I've been more pleasantly surprised by the publics than the privates.

Broadmoor was very cool, could play it every day.
Crooked Stick is good but Dye really walks the fine line of good/weird for me at times, and CS is no exception.
Sycamore Hills is great in spots, boring in others.
Sagamore is mediocre.
Not quite sure about Vic National yet.  Played it once and thought it was very good but needs further study to be considered great.
I would call French Lick-Dye private basically considering the $300 fee.  Great property but was not a fan of the course.  The Ross course is twice as good for me.

[Nigel Islam]

Will have to put Heartland on the list to check out.  Definitely will have to do The Fort and Kampen as well.

I really liked Brickyard and the Trophy Club, both were very cool, and I loved Harrison Hills.

I have played all the big privates, and to be honest I've been more pleasantly surprised by the publics than the privates.

Broadmoor was very cool, could play it every day.
Crooked Stick is good but Dye really walks the fine line of good/weird for me at times, and CS is no exception.
Sycamore Hills is great in spots, boring in others.
Sagamore is mediocre.
Not quite sure about Vic National yet.  Played it once and thought it was very good but needs further study to be considered great.
I would call French Lick-Dye private basically considering the $300 fee.  Great property but was not a fan of the course.  The Ross course is twice as good for me.

Brad,  I agree with the Ross/Dye comparison in French Lick. If you have not played the Fort that should be priority #1 though. After that I would go Heartland Crossing given the courses you have already played.

[Nigel Islam]

Chariot Run is maybe a top 20 public in the state.  It is probably the best in that area north of Lousville with Champions Pointe the only real competition.  Belterra is just east of there and I think it is better than both, even though the immediate thought on here is to bash it because it is a Fazio.  Covered Bridge is a more than a step below all of them.

As for the Ross course in Fort Wayne, it is not worth the trip.  If you are in that area of town, Brookwood is a much better option if you can only get on a public course.  Fort Wayne has much better private options.  North of Fort Wayne also has some better courses like Cobblestone or even a few up by Angola (Glendarin Hills was interesting in my one visit).

Brad,

Heartland Crossing is often overlooked because it is on the south side of Indy.  But it is a pretty good effort, the only real knock I had against it was the routing is lined with houses in the middle of the front nine.  Other than that it is a nice course.
As for Mystic Hills, I thought the front nine was really pretty neat.  Kind of like a lite version of Prairie Dunes with the fairway and green contouring.  The back nine was much more typical parkland in nature.
But very distinct feelings between the two halves.

I would be ok with Chariot Run as a Top 20 public, but I just don't see it as high as 3. I actually think CB is slightly better than Champions Pointe just because Fuzzy is always there. Champions Pointe gets real weird at times for me.

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