[Adrian_Stiff]

http://www.greenjacketauctions.com/site/images_items/Item_11336_1.jpg

I remember reading years ago that the 1885 Open was played in reverse and that they had just forgotten to set the course up for the more popular routing. I also heard this was incorrect and that it was an Amateur Championship that was set up this way.

I had taken the second version as more the gospel.

The first picture shows Wilie Park jnr teeing off at the 1885 Open championship, but at what hole. I cant make any sense of this view if it was the course we know today. To me it looks perhaps the 5th, 4th or 3rd in reverse.

The 1885 Open was won by Bob Martin, he tied with Strath who refused to play off, Strath had hit his shot into 17 and the ball was stopped by the crowd, some said that he did it on purpose to stop his ball going onto the road and for that he should be disquaylfied. The officials were unsure so Strath refused to play the next day. This means if the reverse course was used 17 was the same hole both ways, or maybe he hit his second at 17 to stop it going in the burn.

http://www.greenjacketauctions.com/site/images_items/Item_11335_1.jpg

Looking at the crowd and ropes. Does this picture say that the 1st hole is being played to the 17th green, or is this the 17th to the 1st green or just the normal 1st?

http://www.greenjacketauctions.com/site/images_items/Item_11337_1.jpg

This picture does not say too much. I think its the 8th/10th. One of the Aucterlonies told one of my friends that those were not reversed. Its not easy to tell from that picture, it might not even been 8/10.

[Tony_Muldoon]

Thanks for sharing Adrian.

My only thought is re the last picture. There's a mound to the front of todays 4th green.  

Is that what I can see people resting on, with the town outline behind?


I'll keep digging myself in deeper here...

If they then walked forward,  the first picture could be teeing off over cottage bunker towards the 3rd green, approx. 280 yards away?


(How heavy would the camera have been and would they transport it to the far end of the course?)


The first hole would play towards the 17th green, but that picture looks well short and just over the burn.  Today there's a pronounced kink in the area before the reversed 17th green.  So I feel this is most likely showing todays first.

[James Bennett]

Adrian

I would love the event to be played in reverse.

However, the middle picture of the first green looks like the first being played from the first.
I can't imagine that many of the crowd crossing the burn to watch the putting if it was the 17th.  The 1st makes more sense.
I don't think it can be the back section of the 17th green either, as the buildings along the 18th seem to be in the wrong place for that (and the right place for 17.

Re the first picture, there is a serpentine bunker behind 16 green (I think).  I recall seeing it particularly when playing the reverse.  Perhaps Willie Park Jnr is playing the 17th from the 17th tee?

James B

[Adrian_Stiff]

James - I think that there is no doubt the second picture is of the 1st green. My question really is does this prove anything, ie can we rule out that they are playing this as the 17th on the rotation? Personally I think it proves nothing. I think spectators would watch from behind the burn, there is little space if it were this side. I dont think it is a pic that can do anything to say the course is being played in reverse though.

The first picture is the first positive evidence IMO. I cant work out what tee that could be on the normal course. I don't think it is 17, would the land be so significant lower?
I find this picture quite puzzling. To me it relates to the 3rd 4th or 5th tees (current) that are being used in reverse, a couple of those hole have bunkers set almost into the back of those tees.

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